Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:13 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:00 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 1361
Clint Hurdle was talking about the advantage and uniqueness of playing with a large crowd at PNC vs. other parks, which I agree with. The intimate design of the park helps with that to a large degree. But he also talked about the crowd being knowledgeable, blue collar, etc.

Obviously, about 15,000 per game of those knowledgeable fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent weeks. But my question is, do we really have an above average crowd in terms of depth of knowledge? In my opinion, we do....and I base this on the fact that we maintained any level of support over the last twenty years....those 1.3-1.5 million who came to the games when we were on pace to lose 100 games a year, are indeed knowledgeable. Sure, we have a lot more people coming because it is the thing to do right now, and those will drop back off as soon as we lose two or three. But the core, the foundation of the crowd seems to be above the curve. I have been to other parks in Baltimore, Washington and Detroit and only Detroit fans compared.

Many of you have been to other venues- how would you stack us up?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:30 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1444
Location: Eastern Shore
Most knowledgeable fan base that I know of, esp as to how it translates game day, and the best venue to see a live sporting event, is Madison Square Garden with the Knicks. Everyone there knows basketball, knows when momentum is shifting, knows what is a great play, even if it is just a simple back door. On-line, the most knowledgeable fan base is Manchester United (a soccer team in England) though they've been blessed with a pretty stunningly successful past 20 years. Here in the US, DC United and the Columbus Crew have very passionate knowledgeable fan bases. Of the really obnoxious fan bases, both Phillies and Raiders fans seem to really know their respective sports, though I've never been to a Raiders game live.

One word in defense of the O's fanbase. They are as knowledgeable as any other, I think, they're just really really dispirited. They had their own encounter with losing -- 14 consecutive losing seasons until last year's breakout -- and they are strangely subdued about owner Peter Angelos, who has just about given up on the team since the Albert Belle deal. I've never seen a single calamity knock an owner back like that one. There's not the out and out venom for Angelos like there is among some Cowboys fans for Jerry Jones (maybe since Angelos makes himself pretty scarce for games, if he even watches anymore) but just deep, deep ennui. Aggressive ennui, I call it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:41 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:01 pm
Posts: 5832
Location: Slickville, PA
bradf wrote:
Clint Hurdle was talking about the advantage and uniqueness of playing with a large crowd at PNC vs. other parks, which I agree with. The intimate design of the park helps with that to a large degree. But he also talked about the crowd being knowledgeable, blue collar, etc.

Obviously, about 15,000 per game of those knowledgeable fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent weeks. But my question is, do we really have an above average crowd in terms of depth of knowledge? In my opinion, we do....and I base this on the fact that we maintained any level of support over the last twenty years....those 1.3-1.5 million who came to the games when we were on pace to lose 100 games a year, are indeed knowledgeable. Sure, we have a lot more people coming because it is the thing to do right now, and those will drop back off as soon as we lose two or three. But the core, the foundation of the crowd seems to be above the curve. I have been to other parks in Baltimore, Washington and Detroit and only Detroit fans compared.

Many of you have been to other venues- how would you stack us up?


Well the things I hear from the people around me at games would seem to indicate that a lot of them really are not very baseball savy.

_________________
"Live proud! Laugh Loud! Standout in a Crowd!"


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:58 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5633
What type of 'depth of knowledge' are we talking about---fundamental, historical or statistical?

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:48 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 1361
Quote:
What type of 'depth of knowledge' are we talking about---fundamental, historical or statistical


All of the above...and my impression is that the order I would place our fans as most knowledgeable is:
1- Historical
2- Statistical
3- Fundamental/strategy


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5822
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
Anyone who considers themselves to be a baseball "aficianado" should really try to take in a game - or better yet, a series - in St. Louis. That is a city which eats, drinks and sleeps baseball. When I was younger and had no commitments, I took in several series in St. Louis by myself and wandered all over the park and met some great people and knowledgeable fans.

Can't wait for the 3 game set at the beginning of September - going there with my business partners for the series.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:05 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5633
No. 9 wrote:
I took in several series...by myself...


:?:

What's wrong with that*?

*Disclosure: I am a loner. ;) :D

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:10 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5633
bradf wrote:
Quote:
What type of 'depth of knowledge' are we talking about---fundamental, historical or statistical


All of the above...and my impression is that the order I would place our fans as most knowledgeable is:
1- Historical
2- Statistical
3- Fundamental/strategy


Based upon a mere four trips to PNC I'd swap 2 and 3, but emphasize 1 in CAPS and bold.

Pittsburgher's know and revel in their history. It's rather awesome.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Bradenton, FL.
Have to agree on most knowledgeable.

From our level here in A+ Bradenton - all kinds of fans with stats and such. Amazing the level of detail they have on players.
Heck, they know the players girlfriends/wives/parents and chat with them regularly at games.

_________________
LetsGoMarauders - Website
LetsGoMarauders - Twitter
GCL Pirates Fan Page
FIL Pirates Fan Page

A fan-made, fan-run site to support the Marauders/Pirates.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 923
Location: Rochester, New York
LetsGoMarauders wrote:
Have to agree on most knowledgeable.

From our level here in A+ Bradenton - all kinds of fans with stats and such. Amazing the level of detail they have on players.
Heck, they know the players girlfriends/wives/parents and chat with them regularly at games.


Just playing a bit of devil's advocate but I'd imagine there's a very high level of commitment to the team itself or to their parent organization for someone to follow A+ baseball. Even with AAA teams I find that many "fans" are there for the experience and a select few (see: season ticket holders) are there because they're big fans.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:30 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Certainly in my four days of being in Pittsburgh, the Pirates fan base is vastly different from what I remember. I have been seeing Pirates gear everywhere we've been- much more than I can ever remember seeing when I lived here. And everyone is wearing it, kids, men, women. And a lot of it is current players- McCutchen jerseys, Alvarez, Cole, etc. You never saw that 4 years ago- maybe a Bay or Jack Wilson jersey, but the sparse Pirates gear that you could find was either generic or old school Clemente, Stargell stuff.

Having said that, define "fan base". Do you mean the hard core fans? If so, I'd say that's hard to say which team has the better fan base, as hard core fans from coast to coast know everything about every one. Especially with the internet (and fantasy baseball), hardcore fans know everything about every player, every prospect on every team. If you are just talking the bandwagoners, I don't know. Ours are pretty dumb. Case in point from earlier today- the setting is the dining area at the Pittsburgh Zoo. Three guys in Pirates gear sitting at the table behind me, discussing the Pirates "playoff run"

Idiot #1 "Dude, I don't know. They collapsed the last two years, brah. And its the same team."

Idiot #2 "No way dude. We're going to make the playoffs. It ain't gonna happen. Plus, brah, I read somewhere that they are trading for Stanton."

Idiot #1 "Stanton? Is he any good?"

Idiot #2 "Yeah, he is pretty good. He's like, at least as good as Pedro."

Idiot #1 "Who are we trading to get him"

Idiot #3 "I think they could get him if they gave up Barmes, and one of the guys they have playing RF now, and maybe like a relief pitcher or a prospect or something."

Idiot #1 "I don't know- you don't want to trade your shortstop. Isn't he like one of the best shortstops in the league? I wouldn't trade him for Stanton unless Stanton is really good".

At this point, my mind exploded. Could not comprehend. It is my personal belief that the residents of the nearby monkey house had greater baseball acumen than these fans.

My personal opinion is that Pittsburgh is a bandwagon town for the most part, for all of its teams (less so of course for the Steelers, but give them a 20 year run of utter ineptitude and I'd like to see what happens to that fan base). The diehards are very knowledgeable. Outside of that, well, there's a reason people like Mark Madden and Bobby Smizik have jobs.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:00 am
Posts: 3138
BBF wrote:
Certainly in my four days of being in Pittsburgh, the Pirates fan base is vastly different from what I remember. I have been seeing Pirates gear everywhere we've been- much more than I can ever remember seeing when I lived here. And everyone is wearing it, kids, men, women. And a lot of it is current players- McCutchen jerseys, Alvarez, Cole, etc. You never saw that 4 years ago- maybe a Bay or Jack Wilson jersey, but the sparse Pirates gear that you could find was either generic or old school Clemente, Stargell stuff.


Good point. As an out of town fan who goes to 10 or so games a year at away ballparks, it's just as noticeable re: fans actually wearing apparel of current players. I actually typically see almost as many Walker shirts/jerseys at McCutchen's ... maybe the whole "Pittsburgh kid" shtick really resonates with out of town fans who have since moved away from the city. Saw a lot of Hanrahan stuff pre-trade as well. It's definitely now on par with the retro Clemente/Stargell gear if not outnumbering it.

As to your point about casual fans poorly disguised as "diehards" who wouldn't trade Barmes for Stanton ... a local record store here summed it up well in a social media post a couple weeks ago: "Let's trade J.J. Hoover (mediocre Reds relief pitcher) for Justin Verlander" - every talk radio call-in person ever.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:47 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5633
BBF wrote:
Having said that, define "fan base". Do you mean the hard core fans? If so, I'd say that's hard to say which team has the better fan base, as hard core fans from coast to coast know everything about every one. Especially with the internet (and fantasy baseball), hardcore fans know everything about every player, every prospect on every team.


That's very true.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 1584
BBF wrote:
My personal opinion is that Pittsburgh is a bandwagon town for the most part, for all of its teams (less so of course for the Steelers, but give them a 20 year run of utter ineptitude and I'd like to see what happens to that fan base). The diehards are very knowledgeable. Outside of that, well, there's a reason people like Mark Madden and Bobby Smizik have jobs.



You make a good point. I have always been curious as to what would happen to that die-hard "Here we go Stillers" fan base if that franchise hit a decade long or more skid in the NFL, a la the Bengals in the 90s or the Lions for almost a long as the Pirates in fact. And I think that kind of ineptitude 3-13, 4-12, 2-14 over a long period of time is almost impossible due to the competitive balance structure of the NFL, weaker schedule, higher draft picks who often make immediate, a great proportion of teams make the playoffs etc. Let's see how the Steeler faithful respond to not making the playoffs for half a decade or more.

I feel you would definitely see a cooling of the ardor, and people would find better things to do on Sundays than pack sports bars to watch the games. I've always felt Pittsburgh was a fair weather city in that regard. I remember bartending at a boat club back in 95-96 when the Steelers lost a game to the Vikings to go 3-4 on the season. Almost every loudmouth fan was mother-f**king them. "They suck!" They're going nowhere." "Who wants my season tickets for the rest of the year?" (no kidding). If you recall they made the Super Bowl that year.

Now attendance is not an issue as they sell out each game, but take a look at the Stadium at the end of seasons when they don't make the playoffs. I remember a game against New England a while back, where on the final game of the season, there weren't 25,000 people in Three Rivers.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan base
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2247
Location: Naples, FL
TheShark wrote:
BBF wrote:
Certainly in my four days of being in Pittsburgh, the Pirates fan base is vastly different from what I remember. I have been seeing Pirates gear everywhere we've been- much more than I can ever remember seeing when I lived here. And everyone is wearing it, kids, men, women. And a lot of it is current players- McCutchen jerseys, Alvarez, Cole, etc. You never saw that 4 years ago- maybe a Bay or Jack Wilson jersey, but the sparse Pirates gear that you could find was either generic or old school Clemente, Stargell stuff.


Good point. As an out of town fan who goes to 10 or so games a year at away ballparks, it's just as noticeable re: fans actually wearing apparel of current players. I actually typically see almost as many Walker shirts/jerseys at McCutchen's ... maybe the whole "Pittsburgh kid" shtick really resonates with out of town fans who have since moved away from the city. Saw a lot of Hanrahan stuff pre-trade as well. It's definitely now on par with the retro Clemente/Stargell gear if not outnumbering it.

As to your point about casual fans poorly disguised as "diehards" who wouldn't trade Barmes for Stanton ... a local record store here summed it up well in a social media post a couple weeks ago: "Let's trade J.J. Hoover (mediocre Reds relief pitcher) for Justin Verlander" - every talk radio call-in person ever.


This one is great.


_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits