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 Post subject: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:36 pm 
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... the small contingent of boarders who panicked over the 1-6 start to the season and made comments like "I'm so sick of people saying it's early" and thought we had an accurate look of how the team was going to perform for the year?

That was funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:46 pm 
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1-5 not 1-6 but who can blame a fan base beaten down by such futility? I'm way past trying to blame die hard Bucs fans for expecting exactly what they've gotten for two decades. It's all about enjoying being relevant again. How fun it is!


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:51 pm 
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I wasn't panicking after 1-5, but I never expected this. I had them pegged for 78 wins this year so didn't think they'd be anywhere near the playoff talk.

This is stunning thus far.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:53 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
I wasn't panicking after 1-5, but I never expected this. I had them pegged for 78 wins this year so didn't think they'd be anywhere near the playoff talk.

This is stunning thus far.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:54 pm 
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RoxyChar wrote:
1-5 not 1-6 but who can blame a fan base beaten down by such futility? I'm way past trying to blame die hard Bucs fans for expecting exactly what they've gotten for two decades. It's all about enjoying being relevant again. How fun it is!


Ah, it was 1-5 indeed, my mistake ... but hey, that just further proves my point.

But, I can blame them for not being able to think rationally despite what the past had been. Every team is going to go through similar stretches throughout a 162-game season. Frustration over a bad start was inevitable because it puts a damper on beginning of the season enthusiasm. I was more referring to the folks (and there were a few) who were convinced that as a team the Pirates were bound to hit below the mendoza line after starting the season against Kershaw, Greinke etc. All of this with a mere two series in the book.


Last edited by TheShark on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:56 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
I wasn't panicking after 1-5, but I never expected this. I had them pegged for 78 wins this year so didn't think they'd be anywhere near the playoff talk.


I projected 82-84 out of optimism, realistically anticipated an average team that might go slightly above average due to a few factors (if Alvarez could repeat and/or improve on 2012, the Martin signing working out and upgrading significantly over negative-WAR Barajas, etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:02 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
RoxyChar wrote:
1-5 not 1-6 but who can blame a fan base beaten down by such futility? I'm way past trying to blame die hard Bucs fans for expecting exactly what they've gotten for two decades. It's all about enjoying being relevant again. How fun it is!


Ah, it was 1-5 indeed, my mistake ... but hey, that just further proves my point.

But, I can blame them for not people to think rationally despite what the past had been. Every team is going to go through similar stretches throughout a 162-game season. Frustration over a bad start was inevitable because it puts a damper on beginning of the season enthusiasm. I was more referring to the folks (and there were a few) who were convinced that as a team the Pirates were bound to hit below the mendoza line after starting the season against Kershaw, Greinke etc. All of this with a mere two series in the book.



Meh, people everywhere think dumb things. There wouldn't be enough hours in the day to call them all out and it would just be snarky anyway. Time to have fun with this team. This franchise has been inept on an epic, unprecedented level. The doubters were playing the odds and for 20 years they were right. This squad now is fun as hell. Let's all just enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:05 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
I wasn't panicking after 1-5, but I never expected this. I had them pegged for 78 wins this year so didn't think they'd be anywhere near the playoff talk.


I projected 82-84 out of optimism, realistically anticipated an average team that might go slightly above average due to a few factors (if Alvarez could repeat and/or improve on 2012, the Martin signing working out and upgrading significantly over negative-WAR Barajas, etc.)



Haha yep, I had a spreadsheet type thing set up on my computer that spit out the projection of 78 wins. It spit out 76 last year though, so I'm REALLY hoping it's off this year.

As my girlfriend will tell you, my prediction every season is "this is our year...and if it's not this year, definitely next year". :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:07 pm 
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RoxyChar wrote:
There wouldn't be enough hours in the day to call them all out and it would just be snarky anyway.


Not my intent at all. Just saying, it should be a lesson not to panic when a team starts a season poorly over an extremely small sample size of a 5-6 game span. Even last year they started similarly before getting to 16 wins over in the middle of the year. If people are going to make those types of comments and not listen to responses (i.e. the "saying 'it's early' doesn't matter" people I mentioned), I will gladly point out why people like myself took opposition to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:17 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
RoxyChar wrote:
There wouldn't be enough hours in the day to call them all out and it would just be snarky anyway.


Not my intent at all. Just saying, it should be a lesson not to panic when a team starts a season poorly over an extremely small sample size of a 5-6 game span. Even last year they started similarly before getting to 16 wins in the middle of the year. If people are going to make those types of comments and not listen to responses (i.e. the "saying 'it's early' doesn't matter" people I mentioned), I will gladly point out why people like myself took opposition to it.


That's cool. I can't imagine doing I told told you so posts in the middle of such positive developments but I know that makes people feel good. It's why I don't really participate much in message boards because it makes me cringe. It takes all kinds. I'm ecstatic about this squad though so nothing but smiles from me.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:25 pm 
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RoxyChar wrote:
TheShark wrote:
RoxyChar wrote:
There wouldn't be enough hours in the day to call them all out and it would just be snarky anyway.


Not my intent at all. Just saying, it should be a lesson not to panic when a team starts a season poorly over an extremely small sample size of a 5-6 game span. Even last year they started similarly before getting to 16 wins in the middle of the year. If people are going to make those types of comments and not listen to responses (i.e. the "saying 'it's early' doesn't matter" people I mentioned), I will gladly point out why people like myself took opposition to it.


That's cool. I can't imagine doing I told told you so posts in the middle of such positive developments but I know that makes people feel good. It's why I don't really participate much in message boards because it makes me cringe. It takes all kinds. I'm ecstatic about this squad though so nothing but smiles from me.


The best part is....it's house money at this point. Nobody expected the Pirates to be here at this point in time in the development process. Next year was supposed to be the first big year....there is absolutely no pressure to get it done this year, because they've set themselves up so well with young assets they'll have for several years, a deep farm system from top to bottom, and a TON of financial flexibility.

They can let this team ride out, and then start pressing after next season for long-term fixes to holes and major free agent contracts.

None of that paranoid "this is it"/flash in the pan type stuff. It's a refreshing change...and I'll feel that regardless of how this season ends. I was staunchly predicting a regression last year and still was positive about the future....the two are certainly not mutually exclusive. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:29 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
The best part is....it's house money at this point. Nobody expected the Pirates to be here at this point in time in the development process. Next year was supposed to be the first big year....there is absolutely no pressure to get it done this year, because they've set themselves up so well with young assets they'll have for several years, a deep farm system from top to bottom, and a TON of financial flexibility.


Nope, nope, nope. 2011...maybe 2012 was house money. The way they collapsed was epic, historic. Why is 2014 supposed to be the first big year? Who said that? If the Pirates collapse like they did the past two seasons they will have irreparable damage to fix.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:32 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
The best part is....it's house money at this point. Nobody expected the Pirates to be here at this point in time in the development process. Next year was supposed to be the first big year....there is absolutely no pressure to get it done this year, because they've set themselves up so well with young assets they'll have for several years, a deep farm system from top to bottom, and a TON of financial flexibility.


Nope, nope, nope. 2011...maybe 2012 was house money. The way they collapsed was epic, historic. Why is 2014 supposed to be the first big year? Who said that? If the Pirates collapse like they did the past two seasons they will have irreparable damage to fix.


All the contracts to veterans are expiring then. You don't take on 1-2 year veteran contracts unless they're stopgaps.

Next year you're getting Taillon up, Sanchez up, they're pushing Polanco, and they're pushing Kingham. I mentioned this in another thread, but it's NOT a coincidence that all of their contracts are expiring and all of their possible hole fillers are coming up at the same time. They're timing the window.

That will give them a team moving forward that's comprised almost entirely of guys making league minimum or going to arbitration.....meaning they will have the financial flexibility to make whatever moves they deem necessary. After next year you'll have Barmes, AJ, Wandy, Liriano, Grilli, and Martin off the books. That's a ton of cap space they're gaining.

Those who don't fall into those categories (i.e. Cutch and Tabata....literally) are incredibly team friendly or, in the case of Cutch, your centerpiece.

That's the "window". Right now you're still having your stopgaps, while also grooming your core.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:53 pm 
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RoxyChar wrote:
That's cool. I can't imagine doing I told told you so posts in the middle of such positive developments but I know that makes people feel good. It's why I don't really participate much in message boards because it makes me cringe. It takes all kinds. I'm ecstatic about this squad though so nothing but smiles from me.


Whoa there. With all due respect, given that I stated that my point was merely baseball-related and not intended to be snarky or an "I told you so" scenario, I think it might be you and not I who is creating the "cringe"-worthy narrative, as you ignored that and then said that that was indeed what I was doing. Like I said, it's a continuation of a baseball debate. If someone back then was to be dismissive of others' views that it takes time in a 5-month season to get a finite grasp of what the team is going to be and it's a bit premature to make those kind of judgements in less than week (why? because they need to see the results and have faith that those results won't be positive, hence the poor start being significant and meaningful like they claim), then I see no problem with pointing to those results to support that view once they materialize. It's not about being negative or proving people wrong at all as you label. I said it was "funny" because I do think it now looks funny with the team at 19 games over .500 before the halfway point of the season. That was light-hearted in the sense that I'm sure even some of the people who were down about the start themselves might no consider that funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:32 am 
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Give up the "collapse" talk, please.

This team has much better starting pitching, much better production at SS and C than last year, a superb bullpen with two guys in the minor leagues dealing 98-100 mph who would be 8th inning guys for other teams, solid defense, and a calm and patient front office.

This is a good team. Yes, they will have a rough patch at some point. They play 162 freaking games. But they are a good team - very good.


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 Post subject: Re: Remember ...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:32 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Give up the "collapse" talk, please.

This team has much better starting pitching, much better production at SS and C than last year, a superb bullpen with two guys in the minor leagues dealing 98-100 mph who would be 8th inning guys for other teams, solid defense, and a calm and patient front office.

This is a good team. Yes, they will have a rough patch at some point. They play 162 freaking games. But they are a good team - very good.


*nodding*

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