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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:06 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
The Giants acquired Hunter Pence a year ago and he helped them win a World Series.


Yeah that triple slash line of 219/287/384 was definitely what put them over the top.


The guy hit .286/.313/.357 against the Tigers in the World Series, which featured tremendous pitching. I'd say that helped.



That's a .670 OPS for a corner OF. Couldn't have helped much. And his OPS for the first two series was approximately .470! They got to the WS despite Pence - not because of him.

Also his regular season OPS for the Giants was .671.

Tabata would have been an upgrade for them overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:08 pm 
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One final note to you Stanton-obsessed folks (per Biertempfel) ...

Quote:
The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:10 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
One final note to you Stanton-obsessed folks (per Biertempfel) ...

Quote:
The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.



I suspect he was afraid of the fans, union and MLB offices if he sold off any more after what they did over the past year.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:12 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
One final note to you Stanton-obsessed folks (per Biertempfel) ...

Quote:
The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.


Aka, the Marlins front office almost went for it but Jeff Loria did what Jeff Loria does.

Edit: I'll applaud them on this....they went after the big guns in earnest and balked at trading decent pieces for the best players available in a terrible market. Hats off to Huntington, I still hate that they caved on not dealing Hanrahan in 2011 but he gets props for sticking to his guns on this one. Definitely answered a big question I had about how he'd handle a situation like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:18 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
TheShark wrote:
One final note to you Stanton-obsessed folks (per Biertempfel) ...

Quote:
The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.


Aka, the Marlins front office almost went for it but Jeff Loria did what Jeff Loria does.

Edit: I'll applaud them on this....they went after the big guns in earnest and balked at trading decent pieces for the best players available in a terrible market. Hats off to Huntington, I still hate that they caved on not dealing Hanrahan in 2011 but he gets props for sticking to his guns on this one. Definitely answered a big question I had about how he'd handle a situation like this.


I applaud not mortgaging the future for the best of a poor trade class but it still hurts a little to look at the club leaders list and see Martin's .247 average is the third best on the club.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Having the best record in baseball eases a lot of the pain of low batting averages.

We're rolling good with what we have. I'm ok that no deals were made. Better than overpaying.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Yeah, I guess I'm just not that big on averages. If a guy can get on base consistently and hit for power I'm usually pretty okay with however he does it.

That's why I'm to the point I'm fine with seeing Lambo in September. I wanted him to have 50 games in AAA before they brought him up, and he's looking at some nice numbers through 50 games at this rate. The K rate isn't great, but if a guy is getting on base and hitting for power with a 50% K rate, I'd still love to have him on my team.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:39 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:
Triple A pitchers cannot control the breaking pitch very well. Thats why they are in AAA. Lambo gets alot more FB's there then he will here. His BB/K rate is not good enough to beat out the platoon we already have.


I understand this concern, and it is very legitimate. His BB/K rate is not encouraging. But I would still be tempted to give him a shot. They can't throw him all breaking balls.


Why not?


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:44 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah, I guess I'm just not that big on averages. If a guy can get on base consistently and hit for power I'm usually pretty okay with however he does it.

That's why I'm to the point I'm fine with seeing Lambo in September. I wanted him to have 50 games in AAA before they brought him up, and he's looking at some nice numbers through 50 games at this rate. The K rate isn't great, but if a guy is getting on base and hitting for power with a 50% K rate, I'd still love to have him on my team.


Averages certainly don't tell the full story. Gaby is a great example of that although I know some still dislike him. But the K rate with low averages is what bothers me with this team.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Never in 45 years of watching baseball have I seen a rookie come up and see all breaking balls. You have to earn that kind of respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:57 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah, I guess I'm just not that big on averages. If a guy can get on base consistently and hit for power I'm usually pretty okay with however he does it.

That's why I'm to the point I'm fine with seeing Lambo in September. I wanted him to have 50 games in AAA before they brought him up, and he's looking at some nice numbers through 50 games at this rate. The K rate isn't great, but if a guy is getting on base and hitting for power with a 50% K rate, I'd still love to have him on my team.


Averages certainly don't tell the full story. Gaby is a great example of that although I know some still dislike him. But the K rate with low averages is what bothers me with this team.


Yeah, the good news is, the worst offenders are either gone or are among our best XBH guys. Alvarez, Jones, and Marte are the 3 guys with K rates over 20% who are still on the team. Barmes too but SS is SS and his defense is strong....plus the bat is showing some life so it might improve and if not Jordy's K rate isn't brutal. Everybody else is gone, such as Snider, Fort, Inge, McDonald, etc..

The next closest guy on the team to a 20% K rate is Russ at 18.8% (balanced with a 12% BB rate).

Oh, just checked again, Presley is 25.5%. But, he was below 20% in 2011 and 2012 in more extensive time so it could be SSS. I'm not sure I'd want to draw a conclusion there yet.

Edit: Also, the pitcher spot is over 40% and they're the worst hitting staff since Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier on top of it. Also don't have a single XBH all season. So, there's a big contributor to the overall poor team stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:55 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The Giants acquired Hunter Pence a year ago and he helped them win a World Series.

Maybe, but he sure as heck didn't help them much when it came to making the playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Robert Andino From the Mariners? ANother utility player?


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:20 pm 
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AAA guy. Probably some depth for Indy for the call-ups next month.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Biertempfel:

The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/4447 ... z2afe7HCbk


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:03 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Robert Andino From the Mariners? ANother utility player?


A HERO.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:36 pm 
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Ken wrote:
Biertempfel:

The Pirates made repeated attempts to work a deal for Miami slugger Giancarlo Stanton and made a significant offer that caught the attention of the Marlins' front office. However, Miami's owner did not want to shed the team's lone star.


I posted this earlier higher up on this page. I basically concur with SA's assessment, I give Huntington a lot of credit for his efforts.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:37 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
I applaud not mortgaging the future for the best of a poor trade class but it still hurts a little to look at the club leaders list and see Martin's .247 average is the third best on the club.


At least you can console yourself by looking at the standings :D

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:09 am 
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Here are my final thoughts on the deadline. The Pirates didn't improve, but neither did any of their challengers. If Nate Schierholtz, Alex Rios, Kendrys Morales, or any of the other bats that were discussed were traded to other offense-hungry contenders (i.e., the Rangers, Reds, etc.), then we would probably have something to complain about. But that didn't happen. Only Alfonso Soriano was traded, and he carries a contract far bigger than his stick.

Given Neal Huntington's history of activity at the deadline, I trust his view that the market was shallow and the Pirates simply could not do anything. I'm actually starting to like the guy, particularly given what is now my favorite trade deadline quote ever:

"We were willing to do something stupid. We just didn't want to do something insane."

Now, let's talk about a fella named Andrew Lambo...


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:33 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Here are my final thoughts on the deadline. The Pirates didn't improve, but neither did any of their challengers.

Yep, and that's what matters. We'll have to see how teams face up to the deadline next year.


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