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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:28 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Ken wrote:
Article in the NY Post today about the likelihood of the Mets dealing Byrd.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/met ... FWiJo3LlVJ

Excerpts:

As the Mets look toward the second half of the season and beyond, Marlon Byrd would seem like a valuable trade chip, but don’t count on general manager Sandy Alderson dealing the veteran outfielder before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline just for the sake of making a move.

”It would have to be significant [talent],” Alderson said before the Mets’ 4-2 loss to the Pirates Saturday night at PNC Park. . . . “We want to be competitive and unless we see a strong possibility of adding to our talent base, we’re not going to compromise our competitiveness.”

Keeping Byrd — unless the team is overwhelmed with an offer — likely would give the Mets their best chance of creating that perception. Last year, Alderson went a similar route in his decision to keep Scott Hairston at the trading deadline.

Blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah.

Keeping Byrd would be a sign of early onset Alzheimer's, and Alderson knows it.



Perhaps. But similar things were said last year about them rejecting multiple offers for Scott Hairston - who was having a very good year. He ended with an OPS above .800 and 20 home runs in 377 AB's. Alderson ultimately turned down offers at the trade deadline that would have brought a second-tier prospect to N.Y.

I think it will take more than a couple of mediocre prospects for a team to land Byrd - who Alderson views as being between Hairston and Beltran in terms of what it would take to land him.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Ken wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Ken wrote:
Article in the NY Post today about the likelihood of the Mets dealing Byrd.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/met ... FWiJo3LlVJ

Excerpts:

As the Mets look toward the second half of the season and beyond, Marlon Byrd would seem like a valuable trade chip, but don’t count on general manager Sandy Alderson dealing the veteran outfielder before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline just for the sake of making a move.

”It would have to be significant [talent],” Alderson said before the Mets’ 4-2 loss to the Pirates Saturday night at PNC Park. . . . “We want to be competitive and unless we see a strong possibility of adding to our talent base, we’re not going to compromise our competitiveness.”

Keeping Byrd — unless the team is overwhelmed with an offer — likely would give the Mets their best chance of creating that perception. Last year, Alderson went a similar route in his decision to keep Scott Hairston at the trading deadline.

Blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah.

Keeping Byrd would be a sign of early onset Alzheimer's, and Alderson knows it.



Perhaps. But similar things were said last year about them rejecting multiple offers for Scott Hairston - who was having a very good year. He ended with an OPS above .800 and 20 home runs in 377 AB's. Alderson ultimately turned down offers at the trade deadline that would have brought a second-tier prospect to N.Y.

I think it will take more than a couple of mediocre prospects for a team to land Byrd - who Alderson views as being between Hairston and Beltran in terms of what it would take to land him.

If that's the case, let him keep Byrd. He's just not worth more than that, whatever delusions Alderson may have.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:53 pm 
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This is a perfect example of why GM's should completely disregard public perception. Our front office got roasted for the fire sale of 2009 and it's turned out to be a huge boost to the team. No reason to not deal an expiring contract to an aging player. No guarantee you sign him next year, no guarantee he replicates this production.

I know people hated Huntington's comments about it not being the '67 Yankees, but he was 100% right. You don't feign trying to be competitive at the expense of your franchise's vitality because your fanbase won't like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:45 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:22 am 
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So you'd go Hansen for Garza? I wouldn't. I think his last few starts have inflated his trade value beyond where it should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:25 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
So you'd go Hansen for Garza? I wouldn't. I think his last few starts have inflated his trade value beyond where it should be.


If Alen Hanson was involved in a package for Garza/Schierholtz, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. It's a steep price, but I have my doubts about Hanson's focus and ability to stick at shortstop. And those two guys would definitely help the Pirates in the second half, deepening the rotation and providing better options in RF and on the bench.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:27 am 
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I knew he had a weird e in his name. Put it in the wrong one.

I just don't think Garza is worth what his current value supposedly is. He was average-ish last year and then average this year until recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:40 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I knew he had a weird e in his name. Put it in the wrong one.

I just don't think Garza is worth what his current value supposedly is. He was average-ish last year and then average this year until recently.


Garza's peripherals have been good for years, and he's looking steady and consistent this year, which happens to be the year the Pirates need him.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:02 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I just don't think Garza is worth what his current value supposedly is. He was average-ish last year and then average this year until recently.


Can't argue with going on 7 straight sub-4.00 ERA seasons. Peaked at a 4.9 WAR year just two years ago. I do agree though that this year and last has shown some regression.

While I'm not his biggest fan (mostly because I question if his defense can be corrected at his position) but I'd expect the organization to be extremely hesitant on Hanson due to the lack of SS depth in the system, especially with d'Arnaud looking like less and less of a prospect given his age, injury history, and his play in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Don't think you can look at Hansen that way. Either he can play SS, or he can't (in the FO opinion). If he can't, you will still have to go and get one if Mercer doesn't work out (I hold to my Gene Alley comparison). If he can grab you Garza, and you have to use some of the pitching depth to trade for a SS later on, then do it.

You could look at Hanson as a 2nd, but then you have to look at Dilson Herrera as well.

In any case, I think Garza would be a very nice pickup down the stretch. I could see a real step forward for him as the Pirates adjust their shifts for him, and has 'Cutch and Marte track down balls in the gaps for him, unlike the Cirque de Soriano show in Chicago.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:47 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Don't think you can look at Hansen that way. Either he can play SS, or he can't (in the FO opinion). If he can't, you will still have to go and get one if Mercer doesn't work out (I hold to my Gene Alley comparison). If he can grab you Garza, and you have to use some of the pitching depth to trade for a SS later on, then do it.


I wasn't saying that the organization feels like Hanson is untouchable, it just wouldn't surprise me if they were a little more hesitant than you'd anticipate. His defense is polarizing because he fits the stereotypical "highlight reel glove, flubs on routine plays" dynamic. He doesn't have a great arm but he does have good range. He has racked up a total of 62 errors in just around 200 games in low-A. So I don't think it's really as simple as the organization has already made up their mind with whether or not he'll stick at SS given that he's still 20. Still, the tools are extremely attractive considering he's a SS who hits. My gut is that the Pirates don't deal him unless it's something bigger but I'm not saying I feel that way myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:47 pm 
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why would the Cubs want Hanson unless they plan on trading Starling Castro??? 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Well, this org has shown the willingness to patient with guys and where the want to play (Pedro, Allie). So, I don't think they will move him off SS. But, if they don't think he'll stay there, then they can let the Cubs move him to 2nd, I guess.

I guess it will take a keen eye for talent, and some of Fox's in-house database wizardry to assign a value on him relative to Garza.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
why would the Cubs want Hanson unless they plan on trading Starling Castro??? 8-) 8-)


Because Castro is burning a bunch of bridges in Cubland?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
why would the Cubs want Hanson unless they plan on trading Starling Castro??? 8-) 8-)


Well it was just a hypothetical scenario (as all of these trade/acquisition ideas are that I generally try to avoid but sometimes get sucked into) but considering there are serious questions as to if Hanson can stick at SS, a move to 2B might be the safer be that some scouts have anticipated and despite his glove Darwin Barney isn't the longterm plan there. Also, make you want of this, but among all active regulars with as many ABs, I'd imagine Castro's OPS is pretty close to the bottom of that last.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Starlin Castro is the baseball version of Mark Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
why would the Cubs want Hanson unless they plan on trading Starling Castro??? 8-) 8-)

Who said that Hanson must play SS?

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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
why would the Cubs want Hanson unless they plan on trading Starling Castro??? 8-) 8-)

Who said that Hanson must play SS?


Hansen as a SS is a top prospect. Hansen at 2B is not.

I have never thought he would stay at SS and still don't. If he can get us Garza then I say do it.

I don't know about the rest of you but I take a look around the NL and I don't see any team that is that much better than us, not even the Cardinals. In the playoffs, pitching is the ultimate equalizer. With a guy like Garza and a small upgrade in RF even with our offensive issues I think we can make a decent run.

Let me ask a question about MLB qualifying offers. If we got Garza would it be possible to make him a 1 year qualifying offer at the end of the year? If he stays you get a great pitcher for 13-15 million and if he leaves you get a 1st round pick? It would make parting with a high prospect a lot easier to swallow. However, I'm not sure if the rule still applies if a player is traded mid season.


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 Post subject: Re: Making the team better... the trade deadline thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:03 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I knew he had a weird e in his name. Put it in the wrong one.

I just don't think Garza is worth what his current value supposedly is. He was average-ish last year and then average this year until recently.


Garza's peripherals have been good for years, and he's looking steady and consistent this year, which happens to be the year the Pirates need him.

They don't need him this year, and he's going to garner way more in the way of prospects than you can possibly get out of him as a rental.

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