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 Post subject: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:43 am 
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http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/37195/pirates-need-to-make-big-pitch-for-stanton

The short version: The Pirates have a bad OPS at right field, so they should trade Jameson Taillon, Gregory Polanco, Tony Sanchez, and an additional prospect to the Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:34 am 
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Totally against trading anything for Stanton. First off the guy has spent plenty of time on the DL. Secondly we'd have to give up at least 3 top 50 prospects at the minimum. Taillon is gonna be a stud. Sanchez is starting to get it. Polanco may end up being real good and a couple years down the road could even fill the right field position. I just feel that we should stick to our guns and continue to build from within. Not to mention the top end of the rotation is aging.

If Stanton can be gotten for giving little then do it but don't give up so many top prospects and one definitely can't be Taillon.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:11 am 
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We do need to trade for an outfielder, but not someone like Stanton. No way would I give up as much as you mentioned above for him.

We need to trade for more of a rental type player. A veteran near the end of his contract playing for a team not in the race. Someone who could be had for a much lesser package. Someone like Soriano.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:26 am 
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Maybe not Taillon, but what about Tabata, Heredia, and Bell for Stanton?

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:55 am 
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As far as I am concerened the only "Untouchable" is Taillon.

With the possibility of not having both Burnett and Wandy next year. No way is Taillon involved in any trade.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:56 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
We do need to trade for an outfielder, but not someone like Stanton. No way would I give up as much as you mentioned above for him.

We need to trade for more of a rental type player. A veteran near the end of his contract playing for a team not in the race. Someone who could be had for a much lesser package. Someone like Soriano.

Cody Ross, anyone? Corey Hart when he returns? Even Joey Bats would be less expensive...


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Often times prospects are more likely to fizzle away than end up making top 50 and top 100 lists. Our scouts having done an excellent job finding talented players lately no matter where they come from, college, high school, the Dominican. I'd hate to see the PBC decimated because of one trade and then watch that guy find the DL.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Taillon is a legitimate candidate to become a No. 1 starting pitcher. He has posted a 2.89 ERA and 77 K's in 71 IP in AA at age 21.

Polanco combines speed, power, and plate discipline, is now one of the best OF prospects in baseball. He has posted a combined .318/.371/.479 in the minors this year, with 18 2B's, 6 HR's, and 27 SB's in 62 minor league games this year and is doing well so far in AA at age 21.

Two of the best players in the Eastern League, performing well, with tremendous physical tools, and both age 21.

The Pirates are not a franchise that can afford to trade those players. They are a franchise that needs to develop and keep those players.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
The Pirates are not a franchise that can afford to trade those players. They are a franchise that needs to develop and keep those players.

While I do view all prospects as suspects until they prove otherwise, you are spot on Tim. If there was one overarching lesson from Moneyball, it was that small market teams simply cannot afford to make a mistake on a big scale, whether it is us going all in on a Stanton, or even the Orioles splurging on a toasted Albert Belle. Look how long it took the O's to recover from that debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:06 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Maybe not Taillon, but what about Tabata, Heredia, and Bell for Stanton?


That would be highway robbery.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:18 pm 
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I'd do it. Stanton is an absolute phenom and only 23 years old.

Would much prefer this route to going for a rental player, unless the other team is so desparate for salary relief that they'd take a cash consideration/PTBNL type of deal.

Otherwise, just wait for Polanco to arrive, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:19 pm 
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What about Kendrys Morales in Seattle?

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:23 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
That would be highway robbery.


For whom? I'd be pretty skeptical about that deal for the Pirates, not saying I wouldn't be open for consideration though. It's kind of like assuming there is a mega-downgrade after a Taillon/Cole-status which I don't really think is the case. Heredia hasn't even thrown a pitch at high-A yet and at age 18 his upside is still through the roof regardless of that it is pure project-ability. But mostly my hesitation is with tossing Bell into an any kind of deal. He is borderline untouchable to me when you look at our hitting prospects after Polanco. I still envision Bell hitting in the middle of a Pirates line-up in a few years with power. Arms are expendable, to me the bats are not, currently. You're going to have Meadows in the picture now but I'm standing pat with Bell and Polanco.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:52 pm 
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What does acquiring Stanton do for the team? Make them a WS contender? Make them a Wild Card team? Aren't they already a Wild Card contender?

I don't like the idea of trading two elite prospects for anyone. Not this franchise. We can't afford it.

Besides, what are the chances the Pirates could pay him after arbitration?


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:27 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
What does acquiring Stanton do for the team? Make them a WS contender? Make them a Wild Card team? Aren't they already a Wild Card contender?

I don't like the idea of trading two elite prospects for anyone. Not this franchise. We can't afford it.

Besides, what are the chances the Pirates could pay him after arbitration?


Probably doesn't make them either of those things THIS year, but starting next year? Maybe. He'd be controlled through 2016 at a minimum and will be playing all of next season at 24 years old (birthday in 11/89).

I wouldn't put an extension out of the question, either. They're in a slightly better position than the Rays due to fan support (Tampa fans don't show up ever...Pirates fans will) so I think they could hand out a big extension and Stanton is probably a better candidate than anybody else currently on the roster (aside from Cutch, but he's locked up).

I'd expect them to take the Rays approach and NOT give big, long-term deals to pitchers, instead flipping them for a bunch of big prospects and stockpiling arms in the draft. Pitchers are risky.

I don't think this deal will wind up happening, but the idea of acquiring the best young hitter in the game is intriguing. I know, Harper is very good and has upside, but Stanton's production to date is eye popping. .270/.350/.550 career triple slash as a kid who broke into the league as a 20 year old and is 4 years away from his prime. I don't know that anybody we give up will offer up anywhere near that kind of production.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:39 pm 
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He's also injury prone. How long before he suffers an injury that severely impacts his production? What if he just becomes chronically injured? Is that with the trade? Not to me.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:51 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
He's also injury prone. How long before he suffers an injury that severely impacts his production? What if he just becomes chronically injured? Is that with the trade? Not to me.


He hit 37 homers in 123 games last year, while batting .290 and putting up an OBP of .361.

I will gladly take that production, if we're operating under the assumption that he's an injury prone player and will miss ~40 games a year.

And honestly, I'd bump him to first and not think twice because the bat will more than play there and Jones has shown an ability to play RF and Sands is pretty much a perfect platoon candidate with GI.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:52 pm 
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I wouldn't, not for what Taillon and Polanco will bring to the table. People say "but they're prospects and prospects aren't a guarantee", but honestly, not many guys fail in the big leagues after looking like these two once they have a couple years under their belt in the minors. Usually people can spot something wrong or may have questions, but these two are pretty much universally called rock solid.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:12 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
Usually people can spot something wrong or may have questions, but these two are pretty much universally called rock solid.

Agreed.

The Pirates are not going to sign a superstar free agent. They just aren't.

But they can draft and develop those guys - McCutch, Marte, Polanco will be an amazing outfield for several years. Walker, Alvarez, and T. Sanchez also play a big role. Bell, Hanson are very intriguing prospects as well.

Cole, Taillon, Heredia (I hope), Kingham can anchor a very, VERY good starting staff.

Justin Wilson and Tony Watson give the team superior L-handed relief pitching.

Hey, what do those guys have in common?


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN: Pirates need to trade for Stanton
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:21 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
I wouldn't, not for what Taillon and Polanco will bring to the table. People say "but they're prospects and prospects aren't a guarantee", but honestly, not many guys fail in the big leagues after looking like these two once they have a couple years under their belt in the minors. Usually people can spot something wrong or may have questions, but these two are pretty much universally called rock solid.


Steve Pearce? Brad Lincoln? HUGE seasons in the high minors....just couldn't put it together in the majors.

That's more a rhetorical question than anything, I do agree that Taillon and Polanco will be good.

There are very few guys I'd be willing to trade them for, as any player would need to be 1) young 2) controllable 3) very good.

So really, I'm looking at Profar, Stanton, Segura, Harper, Trout, Sale, Harvey.

Stanton, IMO, is a better player in RF than Polanco will be. That's not denigrating Polanco's abilities, Stanton is currently on a Hall of Fame pace and Polanco isn't really a RF by nature. And then I look at Taillon, and while he's a good pitcher, the Pirates have a TON of depth there.

I think if you can get a ready-made generational type of talent, you do it. Stanton, Harper, and Trout are the only guys I'd be willing to part with both Taillon and Polanco for. Again, this is a guy with 100 career homeruns before the conclusion of his age 23 season, with a solid BA to boot.....just absurdly, absurdly good in my eyes.

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