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 Post subject: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:16 pm 
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My God, John McDonald stays on the roster. This is unbelievable!


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
My God, John McDonald stays on the roster. This is unbelievable!


He's on the DL. Even if we cut him we'd still need to make a spot on the 25 man roster....meaning Presley is still gone since he's one of the only guys on the team to have options and is more or less on par with the other AAAA type players on the roster.

They put Phil Irwin on the 60-day DL in order to clear the spot on the 40 man, and put Gomez on the 15 day DL to make the other spot available for Hughes.

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Last edited by StarlingArcher on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Sigh. Jones and Inge must be better suited defensively to play the outfield position. Surprised it wasn't Mercer. Might as well been. Blow suck barmes has been getting the majority of the starts anyhow. This team is loaded with infielders riding the pine.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Oh okay. He's not on the active roster. I'm sure McDonald will soon be getting the call. He probably thinks the PBC needs him.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:35 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Sigh. Jones and Inge must be better suited defensively to play the outfield position. Surprised it wasn't Mercer. Might as well been. Blow suck barmes has been getting the majority of the starts anyhow. This team is loaded with infielders riding the pine.


Barmes has started 6 out of the last 10 games at shortstop. In those 10 games, he's a rather dismal 4-29. In that same stretch, Mercer is 4-21. Three of those 8 hits came from Mercer in one game. So . . . the SS position has netted a result of 8-50 in 10 games.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:36 pm 
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So you're telling me that Mercer's been better, No. 9? OK. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:47 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
So you're telling me that Mercer's been better, No. 9? OK. Thanks.


He's been the long-awaited panacea. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:55 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
So you're telling me that Mercer's been better, No. 9? OK. Thanks.


He's been the long-awaited panacea. :roll:


He never had to be. He just has to be better than Clint Barmes. That's all.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:21 pm 
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And they brought back Hughes. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:54 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
So you're telling me that Mercer's been better, No. 9? OK. Thanks.


He's been the long-awaited panacea. :roll:


He never had to be. He just has to be better than Clint Barmes. That's all.


Problem is he more than coughs up his small advantage at the plate by being one of the worst in baseball defensively. So, he's not better.

Barmes has a UZR of 14.3, top 10 in baseball for SS. Mercer has a -14.9. That's, well, terrible.

At a defense first position on a team that relies heavily on defense, you need more than an an essential wash at the plate to justify Mercer playing over Barmes.

Edit: They also have a similar error rate at -0.4. It doesn't go beyond one decimal place so have no idea if they're at all different as you get more precise. But, Barmes' range gives him the big-time advantage as he makes more plays than Mercer.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:59 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Barmes has a UZR of 14.3, top 10 in baseball for SS. Mercer has a -14.9. That's, well, terrible.

At a defense first position on a team that relies heavily on defense, you need more than an an essential wash at the plate to justify Mercer playing over Barmes.


What was that Talking Heads album from many years ago? Oh yeah . . . Stop Making Sense.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Small sample size, StarlingArcher. Mercer's defense hasn't been bad and, looking at the total numbers, he's been significantly better at the dish. I'm not sure I'm buying that huge UZR discrepancy. The eye test doesn't tell me that Barmes is getting to a ton of balls that Mercer isn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:12 pm 
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It's normalized over 150 innings. And I think eyes are inherently biased into showing us what we want to see. Oftentimes chalked up to a mess-up sticking in our minds for guys we dislike and glossing over mistakes of guys we like.

John McDonald is a -31.1, and I'm sure nobody is going to be chalking that up to small sample size bias.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:32 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
It's normalized over 150 innings. And I think eyes are inherently biased into showing us what we want to see. Oftentimes chalked up to a mess-up sticking in our minds for guys we dislike and glossing over mistakes of guys we like.

John McDonald is a -31.1, and I'm sure nobody is going to be chalking that up to small sample size bias.


It's not "normalized" over 150 innings; it's projected to 150 innings based on the number of innings played. Mercer's only played 80 innings at shortstop in 2013. And, by the way, I would chalk up John McDonald's numbers to SSS. He's known to be very good defensively.

Moreover, Mercer's UZR for 2012 at shortstop was +2.8. His UZR at second base was +34.3 in 2012 and stands at +12.0 in 2013. How is that a weak defensive player?


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Pressley now heavily contending with Bryan Morris for the coveted Evelyn Mulwray award.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:37 pm 
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It almost feels like Advanced Stats were created just so guys like John McDonald could appear like they suck less than they do.

His best season was six years ago when, at age 32, he posted a 2.4 WAR (his career WAR is 7.0) with a .612 OPS in 123 games. The only season where he's posted a semi-respectable >.700 OPS was when he played 63 games.

Jordy Mercer's current WAR is 1.0. That would be tied for 4th highest for JMac2. Mercer would only need to post a 1.3 WAR to surpass JMac2's 2nd best season.

So what's the debate here? If JMac2 is still on the roster when he's back from injury and he takes PT from Jordy it's the flat-out wrong move. It's not even worth discussing (except to dispense with profanities).

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:27 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
So what's the debate here? If JMac2 is still on the roster when he's back from injury and he takes PT from Jordy it's the flat-out wrong move. It's not even worth discussing (except to dispense with profanities).


It's an abstract apparent stubbornness of Huntington/Hurdle to stick with their original plans. There were direct quotes by Huntington to the media that "Mercer is a legitimate shortstop option for us next year" and that "Barmes and McDonald are our guys this year". Where there is a wrench thrown into this theory is the original point that they are 100% intent on riding out the last year of Barmes's contract. Since that is the case, then it is actually a good thing that Mercer will be getting everyday playing time in AAA instead of giving him an AB or two every dozen games like happened last year. Instead, sure, give those pointless ABs to a non-factor like McDonald instead. Of course, we now go back to where the wrench was thrown in ... I (and seemingly everyone else) disagree with the point about Mercer not cutting into Barmes playing time to begin with. But since the Pirates apparently feel the opposite, that's where the plans fall into place. It's frustrating to understand something when you disagree so vehemently with the very premise.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:27 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
It's normalized over 150 innings. And I think eyes are inherently biased into showing us what we want to see. Oftentimes chalked up to a mess-up sticking in our minds for guys we dislike and glossing over mistakes of guys we like.

John McDonald is a -31.1, and I'm sure nobody is going to be chalking that up to small sample size bias.


It's not "normalized" over 150 innings; it's projected to 150 innings based on the number of innings played. Mercer's only played 80 innings at shortstop in 2013. And, by the way, I would chalk up John McDonald's numbers to SSS. He's known to be very good defensively.

Moreover, Mercer's UZR for 2012 at shortstop was +2.8. His UZR at second base was +34.3 in 2012 and stands at +12.0 in 2013. How is that a weak defensive player?


It's 150 games. So, technically it could be argued that everybody is at SSS at this point.

But, Barmes has pretty consistently been good in that regard over the years. And Mercer, despite only 80 innings, has amassed a -0.5 UZR already....that's poor enough over such a short time period that I don't think we can say he's close to Barmes. That's a drastic drop.

McDonald's been declining rapidly himself. He might not be a -31.1 because his -1.0 error rate is unustainable, but he's gone from a 37 to a 19 to a 6 in the past 3 years and isn't at an age where I'd expect to see sudden improvement.

I don't think Mercer is sunk. If he's your SS of the future, I think you stop bumping him around the infield at AAA and work on his reads, reactions, instincts, and all that stuff and he could see the range improve. He's pretty much 50/50 above A-ball when it comes to games at SS vs 2B/3B. It's not so bad that he can't become league-average. His numbers at 2B are outstanding. But it is so bad that you need to stick with Barmes for as long as you can with so many pitch-to-contact pitchers.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:40 am 
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I would play Mercer as the regular shortstop for a while, just to get a better read on him. But I don't think he has the range for the job long-term, and the bat is not good enough to compensate.

John McDonald should not see the active roster again unless like 5 other guys get hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressley out to Triple A again!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:18 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
So you're telling me that Mercer's been better, No. 9? OK. Thanks.


And some players actually get better when playing full time, where Barmes has proven he is what he is over extended consecutive starts.


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