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 Post subject: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:21 am 
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Late night last night after the extra innings and casino. Will get to the goats a little later...but I am thinking Hurdle deserves some blame.

Why no Pedro last night? I am not just second guessing because of the loss and how these at bats turned out. I asked why before it happened. Why no Pedro>?

Bottom of the 7th. Bases loaded. Two outs. Bucs up 2-1. Hurdle lets Sanchez bat against a righty and he strikes out.

Bottom of 9th. Tie game. McHenry hit for Grilli against a righty. A HR wins the game. Who on the team gives you the best chance at a HR?

You could even argue he should have bat for Mercer in the 11th, but it was a two run game at that point...perhaps if Mercer had gotten on then Pedro would have PH for Morris.

But I cannot understand why you lose a close game like this and your best HR hitter never leaves the bench?? Especially after the monster HR in his previous at bat the night before and knowing how streaky he is. Can someone enlighten me?

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:26 am 
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Pedro should have started last night. And I say that even though Inge had 2 hits. Pedro might have only had one but it might have been over the wall and won the game.

We have to run this guy out there just about every day to give him the best chance of success. I'm even thinking it might be time to move him to the 4 hole. He's a big boy now. Give him a chance to fulfill his destiny.


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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Pedro should have started last night. And I say that even though Inge had 2 hits. Pedro might have only had one but it might have been over the wall and won the game.

We have to run this guy out there just about every day to give him the best chance of success. I'm even thinking it might be time to move him to the 4 hole. He's a big boy now. Give him a chance to fulfill his destiny.


I can understand why he did not start against the lefty, although I agree with you...he should be out there nearly every day, righty or lefty.

But I just cannot fathom why he did not get to take any swings in this game, particularly in the two situations I listed. No clue whatsoever. Was he injured perhaps? How can Hurdle send the Fort out there against a righty, with Pedro on the bench? It doesn't make ANY sense!

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Late night last night after the extra innings and casino. Will get to the goats a little later...but I am thinking Hurdle deserves some blame.

Why no Pedro last night? I am not just second guessing because of the loss and how these at bats turned out. I asked why before it happened. Why no Pedro>?

Bottom of the 7th. Bases loaded. Two outs. Bucs up 2-1. Hurdle lets Sanchez bat against a righty and he strikes out.

Bottom of 9th. Tie game. McHenry hit for Grilli against a righty. A HR wins the game. Who on the team gives you the best chance at a HR?

You could even argue he should have bat for Mercer in the 11th, but it was a two run game at that point...perhaps if Mercer had gotten on then Pedro would have PH for Morris.

But I cannot understand why you lose a close game like this and your best HR hitter never leaves the bench?? Especially after the monster HR in his previous at bat the night before and knowing how streaky he is. Can someone enlighten me?


As everyone knows . . . my frustrations with Kdro are epic.
However, I personally would have had him in the lineup . . . hitting 7th but I wouldn't have been looking at the numbers.

You want SABR analysis? You want to implement SABR into your day-to-day lineups? Then you will get these types of decisions. Alvarez's miserable hitting against lefties, Bedard's strength against lefties, Inge hits lefties far better than righties would have all been factors leading into Inge being in last night's lineup.

For me, the managerial mistake last night was not having the best run prevention lineup in the game in the 8th inning when you brought in Melancon. I've got no problem with giving Mercer a chance to start. But . . . one run game in the 8th inning? Barmes should've been a late inning replacement. Firmly believe that it was a mistake and played a key factor in the loss. Barmes doesn't let that second hit get to the outfield and gets, at worst, a force out at second base.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:37 pm 
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He hits lefties better than right handed pitchers, which isn't saying much. Either way he needs to be an everyday type player. Been saying this for a while. Inge has become his platoon teamate, a guy that provides solid defense and is a singles hitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:57 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
He hits lefties better than right handed pitchers, which isn't saying much. Either way he needs to be an everyday type player. Been saying this for a while. Inge has become his platoon teamate, a guy that provides solid defense and is a singles hitter.


If Inge has become Alvarez's strict "teammate," that is a lousy decision but I don't believe that is what was going on . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:12 pm 
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I think Inge only got the start because he was hitting .600 off of Bedard...

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:23 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
He hits lefties better than right handed pitchers, which isn't saying much. Either way he needs to be an everyday type player. Been saying this for a while. Inge has become his platoon teamate, a guy that provides solid defense and is a singles hitter.


If Inge has become Alvarez's strict "teammate," that is a lousy decision but I don't believe that is what was going on . . .


Care to elaborate? I think I know what you're trying to say.....but, the platoon has reared its head at least the last handful of times a lefty has been on the mound.

In the long run I think Pedro Alvarez has a chance to put it together, but he has to play first. Lefty on lefty should happen. The last significant bat he had against a lefty and he drove in the go ahead run in NY.

I'm a firm believer of platoons, always have been. Platoons in baseball have been around longer than I've been around. The talent level between Alvarez and Inge couldn't been any further apart. Not talking about numbers. Reps wise, the moment Alvarez provides. I'd like to see him get to that level more consistently as I'm sure we all would.


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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:54 pm 
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As I said, I have no problem with the Inge start. I can UNDERSTAND that..but why did Pedro not even get a chance to swing the bat, in at least TWO good PH opportunities.

I also like platoons...working very good for us at 1b and RF...but you do NOT platoon a guy like Pedro.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:16 pm 
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It's fair to question the decision not to play/start Pedro.

Still, Inge did have two hits, the Pirates had the lead late in the game and Gaby could have sealed it if he took his bat off his shoulder.

Ergo, the Pedro decision only became magnified due to the failure of the 'pen and bats.

As far as judgment calls go, Hurdle may have been right on this one and the team was to blame for falling short last night.

Either way, add this to the list of questionable decisions by Hurdle. Depending on how long the list becomes by the end of the season, it will be easier to judge then.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:03 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
He hits lefties better than right handed pitchers, which isn't saying much. Either way he needs to be an everyday type player. Been saying this for a while. Inge has become his platoon teamate, a guy that provides solid defense and is a singles hitter.


If Inge has become Alvarez's strict "teammate," that is a lousy decision but I don't believe that is what was going on . . .


Care to elaborate? I think I know what you're trying to say.....but, the platoon has reared its head at least the last handful of times a lefty has been on the mound.

In the long run I think Pedro Alvarez has a chance to put it together, but he has to play first. Lefty on lefty should happen. The last significant bat he had against a lefty and he drove in the go ahead run in NY.

I'm a firm believer of platoons, always have been. Platoons in baseball have been around longer than I've been around. The talent level between Alvarez and Inge couldn't been any further apart. Not talking about numbers. Reps wise, the moment Alvarez provides. I'd like to see him get to that level more consistently as I'm sure we all would.


If Alvarez sits every time a left starts, then I'll believe that there is a strict platoon. For now, I think that Hurdle, et al. are trying to identify times to sit Pedro against tough lefties and use Inge at strategically sound times (Bedard has a particularly bad right/left split). Part of a manager's job is to identify times for bench players to play and to find strategic times to get starters some rest.

Now, its fair to disagree that last night was strategically sound . . . I'm just theorizing as to what is being discussed among the coaching staff as they discuss a particular game's lineup.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:38 am 
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Maybe they were overthinking it. When a guy hits one as far as Pedro did Friday night, I'm putting him in the lineup Saturday night.


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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:37 am 
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I, too, am puzzled that Hurdle didn't have Pedro grab a bat in the 9th inning on Saturday night when one swing could end it. I guess he was thinking, with two outs, the 'Stros could just walk him.


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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:29 am 
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Alvarez had a batting helmet on in the dugout in the ninth. He would have pinch it if a runner got on base. With the Bucs needing 2 runs to tie the game, the thought process had to be that Alvarez would be used as a pinch hitter in the 9th if one swing would tie it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:37 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I, too, am puzzled that Hurdle didn't have Pedro grab a bat in the 9th inning on Saturday night when one swing could end it. I guess he was thinking, with two outs, the 'Stros could just walk him.


That would have been for Snider. McHenry pinch hit first in that inning.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:58 am 
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Would you risk sending Alvarez up in the 9th to leadoff? Wouldn't you want to try to get someone on base and try to have someone drive him in instead of aiming for the fences?

Plus if Alvarez gets on with a walk or a base hit, you'd probably have to pinch run for him, McKenry looks to be a little more athletic than Pedro.

I'd probably would have saved Pedro for the chance later in the inning where a fly ball to the outfield wins it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:13 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I, too, am puzzled that Hurdle didn't have Pedro grab a bat in the 9th inning on Saturday night when one swing could end it. I guess he was thinking, with two outs, the 'Stros could just walk him.



Then put in a pinch runner and you still have a better chance of winning the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:14 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
Would you risk sending Alvarez up in the 9th to leadoff? Wouldn't you want to try to get someone on base and try to have someone drive him in instead of aiming for the fences?

Plus if Alvarez gets on with a walk or a base hit, you'd probably have to pinch run for him, McKenry looks to be a little more athletic than Pedro.

I'd probably would have saved Pedro for the chance later in the inning where a fly ball to the outfield wins it.



I don't think you can depend on him for that. But with 2 outs, in a walkoff situation, I send him up and have him go for the river. Would have posted this days ago but I was in Boston wondering why he was not pinch hitting there.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:54 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Alvarez had a batting helmet on in the dugout in the ninth. He would have pinch it if a runner got on base. With the Bucs needing 2 runs to tie the game, the thought process had to be that Alvarez would be used as a pinch hitter in the 9th if one swing would tie it.


My mistake . . . I was referring to the bottom of the 11th where the Bucs needed two runs to tie, not the bottom of the 9th where one run would have won the game. You can certainly make a strong argument that Alvarez should have pinch-hit for Grilli in the 9th instead of McKenry. A very strong argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Why No Pedro Last Night?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:05 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
A very strong argument.


I agree. And it would be a simple argument that this is essentially the one situation where all of his flaws and inconsistency as a hitter really don't matter.

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