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 Post subject: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Who is going down when Neil returns? Can't be Jordy--- I know there is another very long thread about him but today should convince even our guys to make this easy call. Think of the heat if they send him down.

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Release McDonald, keep Mercer.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Sometimes, a vote among Pirates message board members would make more sense than some of the roster decisions we see.

Jordy Mercer will be among the candidates to play SS for the Pittsburgh Pirates in 2014 since Barmes is gone (God willing).

He is here on an emergency basis and because, well, he produced very well in AAA. He has some power, walks, runs, hits for average, gets on base, has a reasonable K rate.

So the choices are (1) keep an older, terrible-hitting, no future, cannot start, back-up MI (McDonald) or (2) keep the younger, faster, better-hitting SS who could actually be a key part of the 2014 team.

Hmmm ... tough freaking choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Yeah and watch him sit because Walker and Barmes play. BTW see Barmes hitting last week or so?

Got no problem with Mercer playing every day as to sitting on his ass.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Jordy Mercer is tied for 7th among Pirates batters in HR's.

Jordy Mercer will be with the Pirates in 2014. Clint Barmes will not.

Clint Barmes' hitting is not remotely good enough for him to play unless he demonstrates remarkable defense. He is good defensively, but not good enough to justify him playing with this hitting.

So far this year, and prior to today's game, Barmes had a 0.0 WAR and Mercer a 0.2 WAR. Keep in mind that WAR is very heavily dependent on playing time, so this stat indicates that Barmes is replacement-player bad.

Barmes is bottom 5 in MLB among shortstops with at least 70 plate appearances in BB rate (a terrible 4.1%), K rate (a Schmidt-like 24%), and 3rd worst among SS with a horrendous .057 ISO.

So to sum up ... Clint Barmes sucks. Jordy Mercer has not so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Update:

After today's game, Mercer has a 0.2 WAR, Barmes -0.4.

If played out over a full season, playing Clint Barmes over Jordy Mercer will cost the Pirates 3 wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:08 pm 
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The one reason I would tentatively be okay with a Mercer demotion is for what ZM hinted at. Recently (and for the first time ever to my knowledge), Huntington publicly came out and stated that Mercer is a legitimate option at shortstop next season. The fact that he emphasizes next season and not the current is for the reason one would anticipate, that they seem like they are all in on riding out the last year of Barmes's contract. And if that's the case, which it almost assuredly will be, then I don't want to see a repeat of how Hurdle treated Mercer last year with leaving him on the big league bench for five months without him getting but a single AB over spans of a dozen or so games. If that's going to be the case then let them waste that time on a 35-year old McDonald while Mercer gets to play everyday (and at his true position). Of course, I don't think he really has much left to prove in AAA, and it was up to me I would DFA McDonald and let Mercer cut into Barmes's playing time, but that's obviously not the way it will go. Let's just hope Huntington stays true to his word re: next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Letting Mercer split time with Barmes and giving Walker a day off here and there against a lefty would be a better way to see if Mercer is indeed your guy for next year, rather than sending him back to AAA. McDonald has been a colossal waste, and I think they realize that and will ditch him. As for Hurdle...he does like his veterans(especially Barmes), but he is smart enough to see this team is either a playoff contender or pretty darn close. He can get his boy, Barmes, his starts and still play Mercer enough to make it a positive for him and the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:16 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Letting Mercer split time with Barmes and giving Walker a day off here and there against a lefty would be a better way to see if Mercer is indeed your guy for next year, rather than sending him back to AAA.


Can Mercer play some hot corner, too?

Having him spell Pedro should beat doing that weird shift where Russ plays third (and expends the back-up catcher).

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Even if he were not starting, I would like to see Mercer here to get a start or two a week at SS...one here and there at 2b and be a viable BAT off the bench!

Keeping him should also send two messages. 1) Work. Play hard. Do well, and you EARN your place with the big club. 2) Work. Play hard. DON'T DO WELL, and you find someone who WILL!

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:07 am 
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Barmes is costing the bucs big right now. He might have more range than Mercer ever will but long gone are the days where he throws out runners if its anymore than a flip to second. Mercer's bat belongs in the majors and while he isn't flashy with the glove he's still above average. A solid glove and from what over seen with some range at second he carries a strong arm. Mercer should stay, McDonald should go. At some point soon groove in Mercer over barmes as a starter alongside Walker.

I'm very surprised Marte isn't getting more national attention. I mean second highest WAR in the NL at 2.3. OPS of .917. He's so aggressive, so different than 99% of leadoff hitters nowadays. Ricky Henderson type player. He's coming to swing. Good power that will continue to develop. Lightning quick bat through the hitting zone. Pitch recognition will improve. Oh yeah, he's really fast with a cannon for an arm.

No Trout/Harper like attention though.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:17 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Barmes is costing the bucs big right now. He might have more range than Mercer ever will but long gone are the days where he throws out runners if its anymore than a flip to second. Mercer's bat belongs in the majors and while he isn't flashy with the glove he's still above average. A solid glove and from what over seen with some range at second he carries a strong arm. Mercer should stay, McDonald should go. At some point soon groove in Mercer over barmes as a starter alongside Walker.

I'm very surprised Marte isn't getting more national attention. I mean second highest WAR in the NL at 2.3. OPS of .917. He's so aggressive, so different than 99% of leadoff hitters nowadays. Ricky Henderson type player. He's coming to swing. Good power that will continue to develop. Lightning quick bat through the hitting zone. Pitch recognition will improve. Oh yeah, he's really fast with a cannon for an arm.

No Trout/Harper like attention though.


And he's on pace to break the team's record for hit by pitches too.

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:07 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
And he's on pace to break the team's record for hit by pitches too.


I love that he doesn't even try to get out of the way. He doesn't move. And he takes his base. Doing his job.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:26 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I love that he doesn't even try to get out of the way. He doesn't move. And he takes his base. Doing his job.



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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:06 am 
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1.) Keep Mercer...play him at 2B until Walker comes back.
2.) Release McDonald when Walker comes back and move Mercer to SS
3.) Play Mercer as the STARTING SS with Barmes as a back-up and fill-n for Mercer.

There, I settled it...how much do I get paid? :lol: :D

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:44 am 
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bassoondirector wrote:
1.) Keep Mercer...play him at 2B until Walker comes back.
2.) Release McDonald when Walker comes back and move Mercer to SS
3.) Play Mercer as the STARTING SS with Barmes as a back-up and fill-n for Mercer.

There, I settled it...how much do I get paid? :lol: :D


The more realistic scenario is this: (James at Pirate Prosepcts said the same thing today)

1. Release McDonald.
2. Bump Inge back to McDonald's last spot on the bench role.
3. Put Mercer in Inge's role, where he will pick up some needed playing time and ABs, spelling Walker once a week and Barmes once or twice a week. (Hell can he play 3rd at all? Put him in for Pedro against a lefty when AJ is on the mound)
4. If Barmes continues to be the offensive black hole that he is, start giving him more starts depending on who starts for the Bucs. Play Barmes behind Locke, McDonald and Liriano, start Jordy behind AJ and Wandy.

By the end of the year, they are a better team and Jordy has his needed baptism in the majors and you are ready for him to be your starting SS next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Will you all like Mercer until he gets past 30 AB's and the league sees him for a second time and he reverts to his usual transitional phase to the next level. This is, he slumps badly, and cannot play SS nearly well enough to offset that. Who will be the backup quarterback then?

You are sitting in a wild card race with one of the best records in the NL. Yep, let's dump an untested rookie at the key position in the middle of that and see how it goes.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:43 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
This is, he slumps badly, and cannot play SS nearly well enough to offset that.
ZM

Says who? He's never been given a legit shot. Plus, Barmes is in a two year slump....


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:01 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
This is, he slumps badly, and cannot play SS nearly well enough to offset that.
ZM

Says who? He's never been given a legit shot. Plus, Barmes is in a two year slump....

And to make the conversation more fun, Barmes hits a HR to bring us even with the Mets.

Of course, one upside to having Mercer around, even if Barmes is still the everyday starter, is that he knows he's got some serious competition for playing time. And maybe that will push him in a way that being the 8th Spot Black Hole just never will. He is hitting .300 in May, hit a pair of HRs and has cut his K rate by 300%.


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 Post subject: Re: Come on now...
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:03 pm 
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val wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
This is, he slumps badly, and cannot play SS nearly well enough to offset that.
ZM

Says who? He's never been given a legit shot. Plus, Barmes is in a two year slump....

And to make the conversation more fun, Barmes hits a HR to bring us even with the Mets.

Of course, one upside to having Mercer around, even if Barmes is still the everyday starter, is that he knows he's got some serious competition for playing time. And maybe that will push him in a way that being the 8th Spot Black Hole just never will. He is hitting .300 in May, hit a pair of HRs and has cut his K rate by 300%.



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