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 Post subject: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:36 am 
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There is no reason why Sanchez should spend another minute on our roster.

I don't blame the Pirates for trying this reclamation project. But its time to admit that the experiment has failed. Cut your losses and move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:49 am 
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Ralphie -
I may be wrong on this but I'm not sure that the Pirates can release Sanchez when he is currently appealing a suspension. I'm thinking that the earliest that they can release him is at the conclusion of his suspension or if the suspension is overturned on appeal.

Again . . . I could be wrong on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 am 
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I don't get you reactionary fans. In going 2.1 innings yesterday and only giving up 2 solo home runs, the man lowered his ERA by over a full run!

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:45 am 
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There were times when he looked like he was almost pulling himself back together. His stuff is not that bad, he just can't locate anything.

Matt you may be right about the suspension thing. If so they better resolve that appeal quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:32 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Ralphie -
I may be wrong on this but I'm not sure that the Pirates can release Sanchez when he is currently appealing a suspension. I'm thinking that the earliest that they can release him is at the conclusion of his suspension or if the suspension is overturned on appeal.

Again . . . I could be wrong on this.


I don't think there is any such rule. They can certainly demote players on suspension to AAA.

At any rate he should have been released Friday night, but at least he took a few innings in an obvious blowout and didn't cost them any useful arms. Meanwhile Black, Welker, and Morris are all on the 40 man and pitching well. At the very latest Sanchez will be gone when Liriano is activated.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:58 pm 
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If only the Bucs could jump in the Delorean and release him last week.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Ralphie -
I may be wrong on this but I'm not sure that the Pirates can release Sanchez when he is currently appealing a suspension. I'm thinking that the earliest that they can release him is at the conclusion of his suspension or if the suspension is overturned on appeal.

Again . . . I could be wrong on this.


I don't think there is any such rule. They can certainly demote players on suspension to AAA.

At any rate he should have been released Friday night, but at least he took a few innings in an obvious blowout and didn't cost them any useful arms. Meanwhile Black, Welker, and Morris are all on the 40 man and pitching well. At the very latest Sanchez will be gone when Liriano is activated.


In trying to find such a rule through a Google search, I found the following story which refers to Indian Jeanmar Gomez receiving a 5 game suspension for hitting a Royal batter in retaliation for a pitch thrown by . . . you got it . . . Royal Jonathan Sanchez: http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... z_for.html

There is a line in the story that a team cannot replace a suspended player on the 25 man roster. Still looking for actual rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:18 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
If only the Bucs could jump in the Delorean and release him last week.


The inability to replace a suspended player on the roster was a big reason why I was claiming that the Bucs should have released him right after the Cardinals game.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
I don't think there is any such rule. They can certainly demote players on suspension to AAA.
At any rate he should have been released Friday night, but at least he took a few innings in an obvious blowout and didn't cost them any useful arms. Meanwhile Black, Welker, and Morris are all on the 40 man and pitching well. At the very latest Sanchez will be gone when Liriano is activated.


My original point was not artfully written. If suspended, the Bucs can't call up a player to replace Sanchez. The Bucs lose a spot on the 25 man roster. They might5 be able to demote/release Sanchez, but they would still be one roster spot short. What I haven't been able to find is whether an appeal of the suspension open the door to a demotion/release while the appeal is pending. If a team could do this, it would seem to violate the spirit of the rule which takes a roster spot for a suspended player.

Here's the rule I found at: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3506 -
Suspended List
An MLB player on the Suspended List counts against both his club's Active List (25-man roster) and Reserve List (40-man roster), while a minor league player on the Suspended List counts against his club's Reserve List but does not count against his club's Active List. (A player on an MLB 40-man roster who is placed on the Suspended List while on Optional Assignment to the minors does not count against his club's MLB 25-man roster or the minor league club's Active List).

A player on the Suspended List continues to accrue service time.

NOTE: When an MLB player is placed on the Suspended List, a grievance is usually filed by the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) on behalf of the suspended player because the player does not get paid while on the list. The main instance where it is used is when a player is suspended by the league as the result of an on-field incident, but it can also be initiated by the player's own club in the case of unacceptable behavior (such as a player getting into an altercation with his manager, a teammate, or a fan), or a violation of team rules related to chronic tardiness, possession of alcohol or reporting to work intoxicated, missing a doctor's appointment, et al. The Suspended List is used more liberally in the minor leagues, mainly because minor league players don't have the protection of a union.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:35 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
I don't think there is any such rule. They can certainly demote players on suspension to AAA.
At any rate he should have been released Friday night, but at least he took a few innings in an obvious blowout and didn't cost them any useful arms. Meanwhile Black, Welker, and Morris are all on the 40 man and pitching well. At the very latest Sanchez will be gone when Liriano is activated.


My original point was not artfully written. If suspended, the Bucs can't call up a player to replace Sanchez. The Bucs lose a spot on the 25 man roster. They might5 be able to demote/release Sanchez, but they would still be one roster spot short. What I haven't been able to find is whether an appeal of the suspension open the door to a demotion/release while the appeal is pending. If a team could do this, it would seem to violate the spirit of the rule which takes a roster spot for a suspended player.

Here's the rule I found at: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3506 -
Suspended List
An MLB player on the Suspended List counts against both his club's Active List (25-man roster) and Reserve List (40-man roster), while a minor league player on the Suspended List counts against his club's Reserve List but does not count against his club's Active List. (A player on an MLB 40-man roster who is placed on the Suspended List while on Optional Assignment to the minors does not count against his club's MLB 25-man roster or the minor league club's Active List).

A player on the Suspended List continues to accrue service time.

NOTE: When an MLB player is placed on the Suspended List, a grievance is usually filed by the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) on behalf of the suspended player because the player does not get paid while on the list. The main instance where it is used is when a player is suspended by the league as the result of an on-field incident, but it can also be initiated by the player's own club in the case of unacceptable behavior (such as a player getting into an altercation with his manager, a teammate, or a fan), or a violation of team rules related to chronic tardiness, possession of alcohol or reporting to work intoxicated, missing a doctor's appointment, et al. The Suspended List is used more liberally in the minor leagues, mainly because minor league players don't have the protection of a union.


So why can't a team DFA a suspended player? Seems very strange to allow a team to send a guy to AAA with an option and call up a replacement, but not to release a player and get a replacement? The rule assumes a team would not want to release said player, but this is not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
So why can't a team DFA a suspended player? Seems very strange to allow a team to send a guy to AAA with an option and call up a replacement, but not to release a player and get a replacement? The rule assumes a team would not want to release said player, but this is not the case.


It seems to me that the answer lies in the timing.
In the case of Carasco, he was demoted to AAA immediately after the incident and before MLB handed down the suspension. I think that is why the Indians were able to recall someone to take his roster spot. Carasco's MLB suspension was then issued while he was in the minor leagues. However, when recalled, Carasco would have to serve his suspension and the Indians would be short a roster spot.
What I don't understand is the impact of the ability to demote/release a player (thus preserving that roster spot) when (1) a suspension being was handed down by MLB when the player was on the active roster and (2) that suspension is being appealed. Given the strength of the player's union, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a rule preventing the release of a player who is appealing a suspension.

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 Post subject: Re: Release Sanchez Today
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:58 pm 
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And, in a further attempt to prove that I am not reflexively pro-Huntington, if the Bucs are forced to play 6 games in which they are short a roster spot because they did not immediately release Sanchez after the Cardinals game fiasco, I personally find that to be a short-sighted roster management error on his part. Sanchez's release was well justified by the lack of results in the field and if the Bucs play 6 games "one man down" only to release Sanchez afterwards, I place that right on Huntington's lap.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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