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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:57 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
But first we have this little JMac vs. Cliff Lee showdown.


Let's hope JMac is still angry and pitches the way he did in his last start. Would love to take 3 of 4 from those dang Phillies.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:06 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Amazing how well the Pirates, Cards, Reds, and Brewers are all playing lately. Really looking forward to seeing what we can do against the Cards and Brewers.

But first we have this little JMac vs. Cliff Lee showdown.


I just got tickets to the Pirates at Brewers on Monday. I've never been to Milwaukee, I'm pretty excited. It's Miller High Life Monday at the stadium so it can't be too bad.

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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:32 am 
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Hurdle sure tried to kill the rally, but thankfully Marte and Snider both failed to execute a bunt. Nothing quite like playing for 1 run when you need 2.

BTW, the HP ump was horrendous, very inconsistent and really generous with the outside corner for Doc.

Oh yeah, Inge for team president! Is this another Drew Sutton one good week story?

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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:19 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:

Oh yeah, Inge for team president! Is this another Drew Sutton one good week story?

Looking at his numbers, you have to think his success will be, at best, hit or miss. One thing that he does brings is the experience of winning. I'd rather have really good players, but bringing in guys who have won(AJ) AND can produce is a great extra benefit. We'll see if Inge hits enough to be a productive bench player. I think he will have to really bottom out before they would get rid of him.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:38 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Hurdle sure tried to kill the rally, but thankfully Marte and Snider both failed to execute a bunt. Nothing quite like playing for 1 run when you need 2.


Yesterday's game. Lead off walk in the first. No bunt. No runs scored. Hurdle kill a scoring opportunity?
Tuesday's game. Lead off single in the first. Stolen base. No bunt. No runs scored. Hurdle kill a scoring opportunity?
Tuesday's game. Lead off double in the third. No bunt. No runs scored. Hurdle kill a scoring opportunity?
Monday's game. Lead off double in the first. No bunt. No runs scored. Hurdle kill a scoring opportunity?

4 situations in 3 days. All with a runner on second and no outs and no runs were scored. (I grant you that Marte stole second yesterday in the first when Tabata had 2 strikes and that is not a true bunting opportunity). Seems to me that you can reasonably argue that playing "big ball" cost the Pirates runs in each of those situations. Mind you . . . I'm not advocating that Hurdle should have been bunting . . . I'm simply pointing out that its a "two way" analysis.

The team was 0-21 with RISP heading into that inning. Not exactly tearing the cover off the ball.

Finally . . . as was evidenced yesterday . . . I'll take a tie game with the Phillies after the 6th inning. Pirates win those games 75% of the time.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:14 pm 
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No, Hurdle did not kill a scoring opportunity in those situations. The opportunity was there, but we failed to score.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
No, Hurdle did not kill a scoring opportunity in those situations. The opportunity was there, but we failed to score.


Precisely. Its not like the bunt in those situations guarantee a run. They played the odds correctly and lost.

It was the 8th inning on the road last night. Its "old school" to play for the win on the road, tie at home late. They need 2 runs not one, a bunt makes it 1 out Tabata on 2nd, we all that kills run expectancy for a small increase in probability. They had a RP with a very slow delivery on the mound and Tabata on 1st. Steal the freakin' base if you want him on 2B without letting your leadoff hitter (who has been your best hitter in 2013) swing. Then they have the same RP (who doesn;t K a ton of batters) in trouble with 2 on and no outs and they attempt to give him an out.

I'll concede there are spots to bunt (very few), but this was not it.

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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I'll go to my deathbed saying that analogizing baseball to blackjack and poker are off base.

It may be "old school" to "play for win on road and play for tie at home" but any effort to pigeonhole someone into being "stodgy old school" v. "hip new school" doesn't work for me. If I'm the Bucs, I'm doing what I can to maximize chances to tie the game, keep alive the possibility of going ahead, and pitting my bullpen against other team's bullpen. And, as Bucfan has noted twice, Charlie Manuel fully understands that the Phillies are in trouble if it becomes a bullpen matchup.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If Hurdle "kills" rallies when he calls for a bunt and they score one run or less, then he must also "kill" scoring opportunities when he doesn't call for a bunt and no runs are scored. Yeah, there is no guarantee of a run being scored if a bunt is called for but, simultaneously, there is no guarantee that only one run would score if a bunt is executed as well.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:08 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I'll go to my deathbed saying that analogizing baseball to blackjack and poker are off base.

It may be "old school" to "play for win on road and play for tie at home" but any effort to pigeonhole someone into being "stodgy old school" v. "hip new school" doesn't work for me. If I'm the Bucs, I'm doing what I can to maximize chances to tie the game, keep alive the possibility of going ahead, and pitting my bullpen against other team's bullpen. And, as Bucfan has noted twice, Charlie Manuel fully understands that the Phillies are in trouble if it becomes a bullpen matchup.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If Hurdle "kills" rallies when he calls for a bunt and they score one run or less, then he must also "kill" scoring opportunities when he doesn't call for a bunt and no runs are scored. Yeah, there is no guarantee of a run being scored if a bunt is called for but, simultaneously, there is no guarantee that only one run would score if a bunt is executed as well.

He tried to bunt with two guys hitting over .300 right now(I think Snider still was). Maximizing your chances to score??? How about letting your .300 hitters HIT! I'm of the school that the bunt should be used in specialized situations. I know it stinks when the hitters fail, but if they are two of your best hitters(as of right now) you've got to let them swing IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: April 24, 2013 Pirates (11-9) at Phillies (9-12)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Battle of the bullpens - Part II

A re-run of Part I. Pirates' pen is better than the Phillies' pen.

It's getting to be like those "Final Destination" movies. They are all the same, but hey, I still like 'em. :D


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