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 Post subject: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 pm 
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...feel bad for him. Hate to see that for any pitcher....


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:02 am 
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Brutal news for O's fans. 2013 is gone, and 2014 now becomes a rehab season. He is probably not back in the majors until 2015.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:37 am 
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There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am 
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Scouts described him as a perfect pitching robot. Robots don't have ulnar collateral ligaments. Its a shame for everyone, but he'll be back and he's only 20. He will be 22 at full strength to begin his MLB career in earnest. Meanwhile we will keep praying to the baseball gods that a certain two right arms/shoulders stay intact.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:32 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Meanwhile we will keep praying to the baseball gods that a certain two right arms/shoulders stay intact.


Mazarro and Gomez?

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Scouts described him as a perfect pitching robot. Robots don't have ulnar collateral ligaments. Its a shame for everyone, but he'll be back and he's only 20. He will be 22 at full strength to begin his MLB career in earnest. Meanwhile we will keep praying to the baseball gods that a certain two right arms/shoulders stay intact.


Same thing was said about Mark Prior.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:21 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Meanwhile we will keep praying to the baseball gods that a certain two right arms/shoulders stay intact.


Mazarro and Gomez?



Haaaa. Fingers are crossed!

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:25 pm 
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BBF wrote:
There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.

Quoted for truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Willton wrote:
BBF wrote:
There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.

Quoted for truth.


Never a fan of the TINSTAAPP, never made any sense to me. There are such things as pitching prospects but they are high risk due to health and progression. I can understand those who won't get excited about a pitching prospect until they hit AA (the same can be said for hitters), but they are still prospects with risks just like position players. Its not like MLB pitchers arrive out of nowhere to the bigs, these guys were all good pitching prospects. BBF or Wilton, please explain what TINSTAAPP means to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Willton wrote:
BBF wrote:
There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.

Quoted for truth.


Never a fan of the TINSTAAPP, never made any sense to me. There are such things as pitching prospects but they are high risk due to health and progression. I can understand those who won't get excited about a pitching prospect until they hit AA (the same can be said for hitters), but they are still prospects with risks just like position players. Its not like MLB pitchers arrive out of nowhere to the bigs, these guys were all good pitching prospects. BBF or Wilton, please explain what TINSTAAPP means to you.

There Are No Pitching Prospects, Only Pitching Suspects.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:47 pm 
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I understand the acronym to mean that the risk of arm or shoulder injury is just SO freaking large that it outweighs the talent top-tier SP'ing prospects show.

But as you noted, some highly-ranked pitching prospects the last few years included Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Harvey, Cole Hamels, CC Sabathia, Stephen Strasburg, David Price, and Madison Bumgarner.

I think I could live with a staff built on those "TINSTAAPP" graduates.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:33 pm 
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I don't think it's to be taken literally, as of course there are many good pitching prospects. It just acknowledges the high risk that comes with them. And not just from arm injury; many of them just don't turn out to be any good at the highest level.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:20 pm 
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TINSTAAAACYSPEFTO

(There is no such thing as an accurate acronym concerning young starting pitchers... except for this one)

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:12 pm 
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It's a large spectre weighing over the heads of pitching prospects, who in addition to having to keep their ligaments together, also have to overcome the same "can he actually play?" concerns of a hitting prospect.

A hitter can flame out, and so can a pitcher. But if Manny Machado comes up and kills it in his first chance at the bigs, you aren't worried that he'll feel a twinge in his elbow.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:34 pm 
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From Keith Law's chat over at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -keith-law

Dan (Miami)

As an O's fan, should I be furious about how the team handled Bundy?

Klaw

Furious might not be the word, but I think it's reasonable to be disappointed. It's not clear what they gained by clamping down on his workload, scrapping the cutter, and forcing him to get the ball to the plate more quickly, and it's possible one or more parts of that helped precipitate the injury. It seems like they operated based on some mistaken or unproven beliefs about pitcher health, which isn't the ideal way to handle your top arm.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:39 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
From Keith Law's chat over at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -keith-law

Dan (Miami)

As an O's fan, should I be furious about how the team handled Bundy?

Klaw

Furious might not be the word, but I think it's reasonable to be disappointed. It's not clear what they gained by clamping down on his workload, scrapping the cutter, and forcing him to get the ball to the plate more quickly, and it's possible one or more parts of that helped precipitate the injury. It seems like they operated based on some mistaken or unproven beliefs about pitcher health, which isn't the ideal way to handle your top arm.


Yeah I forgot he was part of the ban-the-cutter movement this year. Talk about unproven theories. Sure, MLB SP that throw a ton of sliders get hurt more often overall, but its not exactly a strongly powered study.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:40 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
From Keith Law's chat over at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -keith-law

Dan (Miami)

As an O's fan, should I be furious about how the team handled Bundy?

Klaw

Furious might not be the word, but I think it's reasonable to be disappointed. It's not clear what they gained by clamping down on his workload, scrapping the cutter, and forcing him to get the ball to the plate more quickly, and it's possible one or more parts of that helped precipitate the injury. It seems like they operated based on some mistaken or unproven beliefs about pitcher health, which isn't the ideal way to handle your top arm.


Keith Law is a putz.
He has no idea what caused Bundy's injury. None. Not even close to an inkling. Yes, he uses the word "possible" but when he writes that "it seems like they operated based upon some mistaken or unproven beliefs," he is being critical of the Orioles. Yet, he has no idea of what caused the injury. None. Completely irresponsible and typical.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Yeah I forgot he was part of the ban-the-cutter movement this year. Talk about unproven theories. Sure, MLB SP that throw a ton of sliders get hurt more often overall, but its not exactly a strongly powered study.


I'd like Keith to point to the study that shows that Bundy's injury was caused by him no longer throwing cutters. Nothing like offering criticism of an "ill proven theory" while using an "ill proven theory." :roll:

Can't it simply be possible that the ligaments in Bundy's pitching arm had Y number of pitches in it and it gave way?

I guess that has no sex appeal or shock value to the ordinary reader/listener. Much sexier to find blame in the way others handle situations particularly when he has a job with ZERO accountability.

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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:52 pm 
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In Keith Law's defense, he also had this response:

Yitz (Stavskyville)

What do you think of the wave at baseball games?

Klaw

I think it is another symptom of the moral decay of Western civilization.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan Bundy off to Dr. Andrews....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:32 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Yeah I forgot he was part of the ban-the-cutter movement this year. Talk about unproven theories. Sure, MLB SP that throw a ton of sliders get hurt more often overall, but its not exactly a strongly powered study.


I'd like Keith to point to the study that shows that Bundy's injury was caused by him no longer throwing cutters. Nothing like offering criticism of an "ill proven theory" while using an "ill proven theory." :roll:

Can't it simply be possible that the ligaments in Bundy's pitching arm had Y number of pitches in it and it gave way?

I guess that has no sex appeal or shock value to the ordinary reader/listener. Much sexier to find blame in the way others handle situations particularly when he has a job with ZERO accountability.


Agreed, the cutter/slider is supposed to be bad, not good for the arm so it really makes no sense that stopping throwing it hurt him. Odds are the damage has been done over years of wear and tear, not a few innings this spring.

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