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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:05 am 
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pirate1218 wrote:
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Philly has one of the weaker performing pitching staffs thus far. Hopefully the bats explode.

I will be at the game tomorrow night I will try to give a game report with some pics. Excited to see AJ pitch live. Also the bats are heating up and the ball carries well in philly

Have fun. Be safe!


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:04 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
J.D. wrote:
Sky?????? :?:


Sorry, I oft use nicknames. It's a very bad habit.

[Sky]Walker.



Even I got that! 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:10 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Russell Martin got the memo that D "Russell Martin Was A Stupid Signing" K is in the Press Box today. Getting on base, scoring a run, steering Sanchez and Gomez through tough innings and nailing base runners.


Snarky Tweet by DK directed towards Martin and/or his supporters yesterday. Made reference to Martin being good at "framing pitches and other unicorns."

Ironically, I watch Martin play with the same type of enthusiasm for the game and desire to win as a guy named Turner Ward. Those of us who are long term members of the Board get the point. Am I wrong or wasn't there something written at some point about the amount of success the Pirates would have if the roster was filled with guys who played as hard or wanted to win as much as Turner Ward?

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No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:42 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Snarky Tweet by DK directed towards Martin and/or his supporters yesterday. Made reference to Martin being good at "framing pitches and other unicorns."


Why am I not surprised.... :o :o :o :o


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:06 am 
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Did he really say it was a stupid signing? NH could not have done a better job of filling that hole.

Martin is one of the most athletic catchers in the league. He is a good at all aspects of the game. And the pitch framing thing is a very real, measurable, and valuable skill.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:09 am 
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It seemed like every time the ump missed a call it went against the Pirates. Except for one key time - he called one of their guys out on a check swing that did not look like a swing to me that should have been ball four. There were two outs and a couple of men on base so it denied the Braves a good scoring opportunity.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:19 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Snarky Tweet by DK directed towards Martin and/or his supporters yesterday. Made reference to Martin being good at "framing pitches and other unicorns."


Why am I not surprised.... :o :o :o :o


Maybe we should direct him to the FG article last week that showed the bigger strike zone that we are pitching to this year. Honestly, I stopped reading him about 2 months ago and I'm much less angry every morning over coffee. He is now in the Smizik, Cook, ignore category for me.

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:53 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Maybe we should direct him to the FG article last week that showed the bigger strike zone that we are pitching to this year. Honestly, I stopped reading him about 2 months ago and I'm much less angry every morning over coffee. He is now in the Smizik, Cook, ignore category for me.


Glad you didn't see today's article.

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:01 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Maybe we should direct him to the FG article last week that showed the bigger strike zone that we are pitching to this year. Honestly, I stopped reading him about 2 months ago and I'm much less angry every morning over coffee. He is now in the Smizik, Cook, ignore category for me.


Glad you didn't see today's article.

I dunno, I thought it was pretty sound.

Until we get pitchers not named Burnett or Rodriguez going more than 5 innings, we're a team on a knife's edge. And that ain't a good place to be.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:02 am 
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"I don't really want to be that guy here"

Yeah, you do.

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:22 am 
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val wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Maybe we should direct him to the FG article last week that showed the bigger strike zone that we are pitching to this year. Honestly, I stopped reading him about 2 months ago and I'm much less angry every morning over coffee. He is now in the Smizik, Cook, ignore category for me.


Glad you didn't see today's article.

I dunno, I thought it was pretty sound.

Until we get pitchers not named Burnett or Rodriguez going more than 5 innings, we're a team on a knife's edge. And that ain't a good place to be.

Yep. The article today was spot on. He stated it was an excellent home stand, and that the players were filled with enthusiasm right now. He simply stated the obvious...we need the 3-4-5 spots in the rotation to step up soon, and the guys coming on the horizon aren't overly solid right now. Nothing inflammatory in this column...even had quotes from NH essentially agreeing with him.

He is going to have to come around on the Martin signing, as I will do now. I didn't like the signing. I still think he needs to hit more. If he hits .211 like he did last year it will kill the bottom of our lineup. But his defense is so much better than anything we've seen here since Tony Pena. And not getting in to the pitch framing debate, it sure seems the pitchers are comfortable with him and he seems like a GREAT team guy.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:12 pm 
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I agree, DK was spot on. But he took a negative slant and I have a positive one.

Here's how I look at it. We seem to have our #1 and #2 spots in the rotation nailed down. Your #5 you expect to be a borderline type pitcher trying to find his way, so no big deal there.

So what we really need are a solid #3 and #4, and we have 7 or 8 canidates trying to fill those two spots. Granted, none of them come with any kind of guarantee, but I have high hopes that we can find 2 good pitchers among that group. Especially when one of them is Cole.

In addition, we may see Taillon this year, and we could add a pitcher at the deadline if we had to. So while our rotation is our main cause for concern, it is by no means a hopeless situation.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Taillon is on the hill tonight for Altoona. If he keeps going at this rate I'd have to think he'll be in Indianapolis in short order.

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I agree, DK was spot on. But he took a negative slant and I have a positive one.

Here's how I look at it. We seem to have our #1 and #2 spots in the rotation nailed down. Your #5 you expect to be a borderline type pitcher trying to find his way, so no big deal there.

So what we really need are a solid #3 and #4, and we have 7 or 8 canidates trying to fill those two spots. Granted, none of them come with any kind of guarantee, but I have high hopes that we can find 2 good pitchers among that group. Especially when one of them is Cole.

In addition, we may see Taillon this year, and we could add a pitcher at the deadline if we had to. So while our rotation is our main cause for concern, it is by no means a hopeless situation.


... and velocity readings or not, JMac sits at 2 very good starts, 1 average one, and 1 very bad one with an era of 4.12 which is fine for a #3 SP. I agree Ralphie, it is the tone, he couldn't wait to find fault and rain on the parade. You can make the same point and be balanced. They have two nice SP options two weeks away. I do agree with DK that each Locke and Sanchez start is cringe worthy. You can choose to say that doom is impending or you can choose to give credit for overcoming the weak SP so far.

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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:26 pm 
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No help on the horizon? What other MLB team has potential starting pitching help on the way consisting of Liriano, Morton, Cole, and Karstens?

Seriously, we almost have another legitimate starting 5 on the way, where Burnett, Rodriguez, and (I hope) J-Mac have three spots already locked down.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
No help on the horizon? What other MLB team has potential starting pitching help on the way consisting of Liriano, Morton, Cole, and Karstens?

Seriously, we almost have another legitimate starting 5 on the way, where Burnett, Rodriguez, and (I hope) J-Mac have three spots already locked down.


C'mon now, man. Liriano hasn't even been particularly effective when healthy over the last couple of years. Morton is a complete question mark after his new approach and comeback from TJ surgery. Cole is a great prospect but struggling with his command (and unlikely to be called up until at least June). Karstens just started pitching again over the last couple of days and may not be available for a good long while (if at all this year).

We can all expect (and hope) that Liriano and Morton come into the rotation for Sanchez and Locke sometime in May, giving the Bucs a boost. But it ain't a sure thing. And it sure ain't "almost . . . another legitimate starting 5."


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
You can choose to say that doom is impending or you can choose to give credit for overcoming the weak SP so far.

I know he is quick to find fault with NH(I guess I am too) but his point was valid. This bullpen can't keep pitching those kind of innings without it eventually hurting the team. The starting rotation has to get stabilized. Two starters and MAYBE a third isn't as stable as you need it to be. And I think credit has definitely been given...


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
No help on the horizon? What other MLB team has potential starting pitching help on the way consisting of Liriano, Morton, Cole, and Karstens?

Seriously, we almost have another legitimate starting 5 on the way, where Burnett, Rodriguez, and (I hope) J-Mac have three spots already locked down.

The guys you mention have all shown the ability to be solid, or even dominant. They've all also shown the ability to be terrible(OK, Cole hasn't yet). One hasn't pitched one major league inning yet, and is struggling with command. The others are coming off bad seasons, injuries, or both. So there are a lot of "if's" for you to make it sound like these guys are going to be a "legitimate" starting 5.


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:23 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
The guys you mention have all shown the ability to be solid, or even dominant. They've all also shown the ability to be terrible(OK, Cole hasn't yet). One hasn't pitched one major league inning yet, and is struggling with command. The others are coming off bad seasons, injuries, or both. So there are a lot of "if's" for you to make it sound like these guys are going to be a "legitimate" starting 5.

Liriano, Morton and Karstens are proven starting pitchers, but battling injury. If healthy - and I presume they are not brought to the team until they are so - would they be considered legitimate starting pitchers? Not aces or No. 1's - I said legitimate starting pitchers.

Further, Cole is a pretty good prospect. Right, working on command, I get that, but his ceiling is pretty high.

Morton with that filthy 2-seamer in the mid-90's, Liriano working in the mid-90's with that swing-and-miss slider, Karstens with excellent command and an improving K rate, Cole with just plain nasty stuff ... If a team started the year with Morton, Liriano, and Karstens healthy, and Cole as the No. 4, that would be better than several teams' current 1-4, I submit. (For comparison, look at the Indians' rotation, or the Mariners [2 stellar arms and then crap], or the Astros [Norris is solid followed by .... these guys would take the four listed above], or Miami [Jose Fernandez notwithstanding].)

And I am not talking about the numbers 6-9 for other teams, but instead their current rotations. You see my point?


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 Post subject: Re: April 21, 2013 Braves (13-4) at Pirates (9-8)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm 
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I think most other team's cavalry is a lot more iffier than that of the Bucs. First in line for the Phillies is a guy named Jonathan Pettibone, who we'll see tonight. So far he's given up 10 runs in 9 AAA innings.

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