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 Post subject: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Beyond WORTHLESS!

Send him down. I'm tired of waiting for his two grand slam game on May 30 when the Bucs win 14-6!


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:03 pm 
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If anything I actually thought the past week or so was the closest we've came to one of his hot streaks this season. Drew some confident-looking walks in the Cincy series that displayed pretty solid plate discipline, had the opposite field hit, had a nice AB getting the BB in tonight's game too. Yeah, the K with RISP was ugly, but then again, so was McCutchen's in the first inning. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw something soon. We might not, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if we did.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:06 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
. Drew some confident-looking walks in the Cincy series that displayed pretty solid plate discipline, had the opposite field hit, had a nice AB getting the BB in tonight's game too.


Yeah, that's the reason we drafted him #1, so he could draw some confident looking (as opposed to non-confident looking) walks and get the occasional opposite field hit.

I'm sick of defending him. I can't stand to see him walk to the plate!


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
I'm sick of defending him. I can't stand to see him walk to the plate!


Then don't. But don't shrug off walks like getting on base isn't important, regardless who who the batter is doing it. Improvements are improvements, no matter how little. And if we're talking about a player who goes through stretches striking out at a 40% rate, all of a sudden showing better plate discipline as being able to make pitchers work to get hittable pitches as opposed to swinging at everything to constantly get buried in pitcher's counts and render themselves helpless, then showing better patience at the plate could go a long way to getting better results in this long season. The terrible performances at the starts of his rookie year and last year compared to the overall statline at the end of the year speak for themselves in that regard. I'm not predicting one thing or another. But not afraid to point out positive signs when I see them.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:19 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Corsair wrote:
I'm sick of defending him. I can't stand to see him walk to the plate!


Then don't. But don't shrug off walks like getting on base isn't important, regardless who who the batter is doing it. Improvements are improvements, no matter how little. And if we're talking about a player who goes through stretches striking out at a 40% rate, all of a sudden showing better plate discipline as being able to make pitchers work to get hittable pitches as opposed to swinging at everything to constantly get buried in pitcher's counts and render themselves helpless, then showing better patience at the plate could go a long way to getting better results in this long season. The terrible performances at the starts of his rookie year and last year compared to the overall statline at the end of the year speak for themselves in that regard. I'm not predicting one thing or another. But not afraid to point out positive signs when I see them.



Watching him take fastball down the middle for strike one, looking at fastball on the corner for strike two or better yet, swinging poorly at inside pitch for strike two, and wildly flailing at outside pitch for strike three with men on base far outweighs any joy I get from watching him work a walk with no one on and two outs.

Sorry, that's just me!


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:33 pm 
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His defensive skills aren't great either. He can't make routine plays.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
Watching him take fastball down the middle for strike one, looking at fastball on the corner for strike two or better yet, swinging poorly at inside pitch for strike two, and wildly flailing at outside pitch for strike three with men on base far outweighs any joy I get from watching him work a walk with no one on and two outs.


... which is exactly why seeing alternatives (in this case, the BBs) is a positive sign as opposed to seeing the ABs you described 90% of the time like we had been seeing. Nothing too complicated here, modest improvements are modest improvements.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:37 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Corsair wrote:
Watching him take fastball down the middle for strike one, looking at fastball on the corner for strike two or better yet, swinging poorly at inside pitch for strike two, and wildly flailing at outside pitch for strike three with men on base far outweighs any joy I get from watching him work a walk with no one on and two outs.


... which is exactly why seeing alternatives (in this case, the BBs) is a positive sign as opposed to seeing the ABs you described 90% of the time like we had been seeing. Nothing too complicated here, modest improvements are modest improvements.



What don't you get? He works the walk with no one on and two out and they are pitching around him so as not to give up the solo homer, but with men on base he's deaf, dumb and blind!

We are supposed to celebrate this?


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:42 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Drew some confident-looking walks in the Cincy series that displayed pretty solid plate discipline, had the opposite field hit, had a nice AB getting the BB in tonight's game too.


Agreed. That's been the most frustrating thing. He's not totally lost up there, he's battling and extending AB's, he just can't finish... which is what matters most.

Following his AB's is like watching a horse stumble out of the gate, pick themselves up and take a few brilliant strides which get him back near the pack before wiping out, eating dirt and getting a DNF.

TheShark wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if we saw something soon. We might not, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if we did.


It's felt that way for nearly a week now. He's had ample chances to do something with runners on in 'clutch' situations. It seemd possible that all he needed was a chance to redeem himself, but having runners on base hasn't put the fear into pitchers facing him so it's been his usual falling behind in the count routine.

It's devastating when he K's or produces a soft out.

Pedro is vexing.

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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
What don't you get? He works the walk with no one on and two out and they are pitching around him so as not to give up the solo homer, but with men on base he's deaf, dumb and blind!

We are supposed to celebrate this?


Oh, so your strategy is to just make stuff up.

4/12: Drew one-out walk with RISP after Jone doubled.
4/13: Led off inning by drawing a walk.
4/13: Drew two walks, one of which led off 8th inning.

Really, for as someone as admittedly fed up with Alvarez as you claim to be, you are really trying to present that teams are intimidated of giving up a HR and pitching around him? You don't think that teams watch tape before games and saw the type of AB you described where he has a consistent tendency to strike out on three or four pitches, many of which look very hittable? Please.

Corsair wrote:
We are supposed to celebrate this?


If you read any of what I said (which is questionable, you clearly just instead got defensive as if I was trying to prove you wrong on a subjective opinion), it was pretty simple: that I predicted if he was going to get hot, it looked like it might be after the Reds series compared to any other time we've seen this season. If you read that and snap back with posts like "yeah, that's why we drafted him!" or think that I'm saying we are supposed to "celebrate it", I suggest re-reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:53 pm 
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I just hope you Pedro bashers are not jumping on the bandwagon later.

It's 13 games into the season. Yes, Pedro looks pretty bad...

Again, it's 13 games into the season.

By comparison, I am not ready to get rid of JMac after three starts.

Also, Pedro's D has been pretty damn good for the most part.

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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:59 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Corsair wrote:


4/13: Led off inning by drawing a walk.
4/13: Drew two walks, one of which led off 8th inning.
.



You are right! I stand corrected! He can draw a lead off walk as well! So he can draw a walk with no one on in two situations. You are so right! I am sorry I doubted. His .067 batting average, one RBI and three hits now make perfect sense to me!

How dare I criticize him.

This is almost as pathetic as our announcers crowing on and on about his batting practice homer leaving Dodger Stadium last weekend, as he went on another Oh fer series.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:59 pm 
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I'm worried about jmac. We all know the whole confidence issue. We've seen that the last couple years. Now its the "stuff" issue. The loss in velocity and the lack of control.

He needs to regroup soon.

Pedro, he's either gonna hit while he's here or he's not. Either way we'll only have him so long. It'll be a trade, DFA, or loss to free agency all depending on his production or lack thereof.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:03 am 
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Clarification:

That JD comment above is actually mine (as most of you can figure) JD is staying over at my house, painting our house the next few days. He logged in to do his "54 games" thing and forgot to log out.

so Shark, that was not JD, that was me, who responded. We both apologize for the error.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:08 am 
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Animal wrote:
I just hope you Pedro bashers are not jumping on the bandwagon later.


As one of his fantasy owners I reserve the right to ride the Pedro roller-coaster. :D

But more seriously, forgive me if my comments sound like 'bashing'.

We all want Pedro to succeed, it's just tough watching him struggle like this. He really is vexing (love that word and it's so rare that it must be used it when it's actually appicable! :D ).

It's like watching a broadway musical, only one of the star's voices is shot... cringe worthy. It's that gut wrenching sympathy.

Knowing what he's capable of is the worst part about watching him struggle like this.

He'll turn around (eventually), but until then it's... ugh. Come on 'dro!

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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:15 am 
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From the looks of it, if they were to roll the ball on the grass too him, he would not be able to make solid contact. But I will say this, if we're going to be critical of Pedro, Russell Martin is just as bad. Two guys hitting under 100 is not good. Some pitchers have higher batting averages.
Essentially we are playing a six inning game when these two guys are I. The game right now. Automatic outs.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:17 am 
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Corsair wrote:

That JD comment above is actually mine (as most of you can figure) JD is staying over at my house, painting our house the next few days. He logged in to do his "54 games" thing and forgot to log out.


You're ignoring the part about how it isn't how he draws walks that is the point, it's that you're wrong that drawing some walks as opposed to striking out in ugly fashion is meaningless, and wrong about giving him 0 credit in saying that he's only drawing them because opposing pitchers are giving him a free base because they fear of a HR.

And amazingly you're still going on about acting like I'm saying you can't criticize him or saying that we should "celebrate" or be happy about these very slight improvements. I repeat (and repeat): I merely said that he looked better at the plate recently, the best he has looked all year and that may or may not mean that we could see some changes. That does not warrant the types of responses you have given, like saying that that doesn't matter and has no merit and making stuff up about why he drew the walks, and equate what I said as saying as acting like I'm highly praising the guy and saying we should be completely satisfied with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:29 am 
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I don't think we should praise him for walking a couple of times, since like said, we need him to be smashing HRs and doubles, not walking. But it was definitely worth pointing out that his at bats so far this season look a lot better than his at bats this time last season. He's working the count more, and his eye seems better. Some of you need to realize...Pedro is ALWAYS going to have an ugly at bat here and there. It's the kind of hitter he is. Try not demanding so much. If it's the start of June and he still looks like this, then you can be outraged.

McCutchen is a great hitter. McCutchens version of a slow start is hitting .250 while still being very productive. Pedro still needs to get to something along those lines during his cold streaks. If you're not hitting well, you can still have your moments, while with Pedro it's either hitting or not.

I do hate the "slow starter" excuse for any player though, not just Pedro.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:07 am 
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I'm not trying to jump on Pedro either, but the watching fastball first strikes is getting old.

He's in his 3rd year now, it's time to start producing and making pitchers pay for those meatball first pitches. He was brought here to hit, not walk. He's supposed to be a clean up hitter and he's hitting .086?

Not good enough. Yeah, I know it's early. But there are still glaring holes in his game and like I said, this is year 3. Time to get it right.........or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Alvarez:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:46 am 
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I agree with the criticism of watching too many first ball strikes. Seems to me that one of the skills that needs to be mastered in baseball is to be able to focus on the moment. There are few team sports where a player gets the luxury of taking his time to settle in the batter's box, having had tons of time to focus on the pitcher's scouting report and in-game adjustments. He's gotta know he's getting first ball strikes and he's got to make the adjustment mentally that he's going to attack them. I wasn't a very good ball player, but the one constant coaching tip I always got was to make the pitcher come to me and make him get it across the plate. That was Home Run Baker ball, and getting the ball over the plate was still a challenge for most 11 and 12 year olds. I would think that Pedro has to be capable of growing up with the game.


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