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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:53 pm 
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garzalny wrote:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1VwOLIVOWvwC&pg=PA476&lpg=PA476&dq=mcclatchy+buys+pirates+partners&source=web&ots=qi03xbhwjr&sig=6vUCwP-ld4sD1-cfMYd4jf0hI7E&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA476,M1

In 1997, several of the partners divested themselves in the partnerships and the Nuttings bought more of the shares and became the largest shareholders.....so it was earlier than 1999.


The quote says nothing about them becoming the largest shareholders. It says he bought more shares which is what we said before. The Nuttings kept buying shares as time went on. Nobody knows the exact time line, but I know for a fact that Chip Ganassi held his shares until 2003 at least as did many other of the owners.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:54 pm 
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Please find a cite for that.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:55 pm 
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garzalny wrote:
Please find a cite for that.


A site for what?

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Okay, i see what Ive been dealing with now, someone who'll just make stuff up. Nothing in that piece backs up your claim. Nothing. You are now officially meaningless to this discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:09 am 
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I gave you a source that indicates that the Nuttings started buying up everyone's shares starting in 1997. I didn't make that up. I asked for you to show me a cite...not a site...that indicates that they did not and they did not possess a majority of the shares of the team for quite a while now. Bob Nutting became Chairman in 2007 formally, but his family and their asscocated investors...i.e....thiose whose votes the Nuttings controlled...had been in possession of the majority of the shares fior some time now.

The only reason I was discussing this is that some here were claiming that the Nuttings shouldn't share any blame for what happened with this team prior to 2007 when it was clear that they have controlled the majority of the shares of the pirates for quite a while now. When the team is under youtr control...you are responsible.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:13 am 
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garzalny wrote:
I gave you a source that indicates that the Nuttings started buying up everyone's shares starting in 1997. I didn't make that up. I asked for you to show me a cite...not a site...that indicates that they did not and they did not possess a majority of the shares of the team for quite a while now. Bob Nutting became Chairman in 2007 formally, but his family and their asscocated investors...i.e....thiose whose votes the Nuttings controlled...had been in possession of the majority of the shares fior some time now.

The only reason I was discussing this is that some here were claiming that the Nuttings shouldn't share any blame for what happened with this team prior to 2007 when it was clear that they have controlled the majority of the shares of the pirates for quite a while now. When the team is under youtr control...you are responsible.


You didn't give a source. That's the point. You did make it up. Go back and read the book passage again. Nobody knows exactly when the Nuttings got total control. But my best guess is 2003 at the earliest because that's when McClatchy ran into problems and sometime after that is when the board of directors shifted away from his power.

If someone has an old media guide on here, that will tell a big part of the story. Who were the board of directors in any year? 2003? 2001? 1999?

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:14 am 
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garzalny wrote:
I gave you a source that indicates that the Nuttings started buying up everyone's shares starting in 1997. I didn't make that up. I asked for you to show me a cite...not a site...that indicates that they did not and they did not possess a majority of the shares of the team for quite a while now. Bob Nutting became Chairman in 2007 formally, but his family and their asscocated investors...i.e....thiose whose votes the Nuttings controlled...had been in possession of the majority of the shares fior some time now.

The only reason I was discussing this is that some here were claiming that the Nuttings shouldn't share any blame for what happened with this team prior to 2007 when it was clear that they have controlled the majority of the shares of the pirates for quite a while now. When the team is under youtr control...you are responsible.


Youre the one who made the claim the Nuttings held majority interest since 1999, then amazingly, you provided a post that did not back that up, a link that simply talked about them being shareholders. You just make stuff up. I encourage everyone here to read that piece, so you know what youre dealing with:

http://books.google.com/books?id=1VwOLI ... #PPA476,M1


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:18 am 
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garzalny

I hereby pass the torch over to you.

:D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:19 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
garzalny

I hereby pass the torch over to you.

:D :D :D


There you go, garzalny. Look who's on your side.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:48 am 
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I think it's just incredible that you folks here don't even blame the Nuttings for what's happened here. How do you think they were able to get rid of McClatchy? Possibly because they actually had controlling interest in the team? Could that possibly be? I must be dealing with children here who have no ability to apply logic to a situation even when confronted with more than adeqaute information.

By all means...go blindly into the night sheep and follow the beacon of true light that is the Nuttings. They will show you the truth in good time. Maybe that 23rd consecutive losing season will wake you up......but by all means, kill the messenger. I don't know how it is possible to have any positive thoughts at all about the Nuttings. They just slept through this decade while everything stunk in spades and now Bob is going to ride in on a white horse and rescue the team? Why? Has he suddenly become a fan? No...he realized that the increasingly negative publicity was starting to erode the value of the franchise. That's what they care about...nothing else. Trust Bob Nutting that he will restore the glory to the franchise. That will get you quite far. Please enjoy indulging yourself in this fantasy. I prefer to look at history and consider it before I look at something and see the possibility of rainbows and puppydog tails. Good luck with that. Ignorance must truly be bliss.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:50 am 
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The Nuttings did get rid of Kevin McClatchy....IN 2007.

Holy cow. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:57 am 
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They had the ability to do it way before that. They chose not to and backed him every inch of the way....and there is a reason for that. He was doing what they, the shareholders, were telling him to do...otherwise he would have been fired earlier than 2007. I'm sure you know how corporate entities conduct business, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:58 am 
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The guy is meaningless, just makes stuff up. Amazing, he provided the link to prove that, that hes full of it. I suggest everyone go to the link hes provided and read whats there, provided by him, and determine if theres any proof that the Nuttings had controlling interest since '99. There is none, trust me. I knew if we kept this guy talking long enough he'd reveal himself.

Sorry, pal, but you are now officially meaningless to the discussion, revealed as someone wholl simply make stuff up.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:00 am 
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Can anyone say Gary?

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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:12 am 
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I can't believe you hold the Nuttings blameless for this situation and want to heap it all on McClatchy. Was McC ever a majority investor? I don't think so. He was the CEO chosen by the shareholders. Find any documentation at all about who held what percentage of the corporation. You won't find it anywhere except in the company's federal docs. It's the same rewason they wouldn't open up their books when requested to do so by the City. They don't have to. They are a privately held company. What is evident is that thre Nuttings have had controlling interest in the corporation for much longer than 2007. If you don't want to believe it, don't. I showed that they started buying up other shareholders' shares in 1997 and have continued to do so.

If you can't see a trend with the way this team has operated for the last 10 years, you are simply blind. McClatchy did what he was told to do. If he hadn't, he would have been fired sooner, pure and simple. The Nuttings had the biggest block of shares and were able to determine the path and the expectations for the team. Nothing happened to change the course of the team at all until some very negative publicity by both fans and the media threatened the value of the franchise.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:28 am 
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garzalny wrote:
I can't believe you hold the Nuttings blameless for this situation and want to heap it all on McClatchy. Was McC ever a majority investor? I don't think so. He was the CEO chosen by the shareholders. Find any documentation at all about who held what percentage of the corporation. You won't find it anywhere except in the company's federal docs. It's the same rewason they wouldn't open up their books when requested to do so by the City. They don't have to. They are a privately held company. What is evident is that thre Nuttings have had controlling interest in the corporation for much longer than 2007. If you don't want to believe it, don't. I showed that they started buying up other shareholders' shares in 1997 and have continued to do so.

If you can't see a trend with the way this team has operated for the last 10 years, you are simply blind. McClatchy did what he was told to do. If he hadn't, he would have been fired sooner, pure and simple. The Nuttings had the biggest block of shares and were able to determine the path and the expectations for the team. Nothing happened to change the course of the team at all until some very negative publicity by both fans and the media threatened the value of the franchise.


I didnt even bother reading this. You just make stuff up, proven by the very link you provided, so why would I? Whats the sense in having a serious discussion with someone who simply lies. And if anyone doubts that, check the link he himself provided.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 am 
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Name calling and attacking. All against your rules. When you lose an argument, you resort to name calling and attacks. How childish. Are you 13 or something close to that? What a way to make new posters feel welcome. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:10 am 
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garzalny wrote:
Name calling and attacking. All against your rules. When you lose an argument, you resort to name calling and attacks. How childish. Are you 13 or something close to that? What a way to make new posters feel welcome. Thanks.


If you're so upset and feel any sort of way as to how you are treated here, you can leave...you are not locked into any contract saying you need to post on this board...

or if you'd like to discuss the evilness of Nutting and Neal and Frank and disregard any and everything that has been done to this organization in the past 14 months, please use the friend/foe feature (aka ignore) and you can talk on...


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:20 am 
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No thanks...I think I'd rather converse with intelligent adult people who make newcomers feel welcome and don't attack them because they understand the real world, aren't caught up in a fantasy of a benevolent ownership of the Pirates and have opinions that differ from their own. All I did was defend another board member who was being attacked for being what another poster thought was the behavior of a fair weather fan. You guys would probably cheer on witch burners.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Bucs from a "fair weather" fan.....
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:45 am 
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Hmmm. Dont forget the lying part, which you did.


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