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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
So much for Spring Training? What did this team work on in February and March? I thought this club would be improved from last year just because the core players have had another season under their belt?

Same bad baseball, same bad swings, same type of outs...all very predictable.

I know, I know, I know...it's early...BUT NOTHING this team is doing right now (or not doing) does not give me any hope for a successful season.


Seriously, not the 5 very good starts out of 6? Or the very good work by the backend of the pen? Or the fact that we were 2-6 last year?


Barrys, it seems that if a Pirate does well at this point (pitcher or position player) we're suppose to feel good about it? Well, after all of these years of losing, pitchers like Wandy who goes out and pitches a good game, or A.J., or a bullpen guy, or a position player like Cutch who has a good game, the Pirate fans should feel good about that?

These guys SHOULD be performing at a high level winning games for the Bucs. We seem to, as Pirate fans, lower our expectations and give these guys a pass when they are going bad.

I, for one, am tired of doing that.

And, this is a team sport and this TEAM is losing no matter if an individual is doing his JOB and performing to expectations.

I expect many of these Pirate players at this point to play well, pitch good games, hit the ball for hits, and WIN games.

This is the year for me for the Pirates to WIN as a team, or I expect heads to roll in management.

Nutting might have this franchise in good financial standing but this team has to prove that they can WIN consistently and finish the season strong...and they haven't done it yet.

How many more years will it be before that happens?

Sorry for my rant but that's how I feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Agreed. Anybody remember starting the season 0-3 last year before winning two from the Phillies?


Actually, the Bucs started 0-1 and then beat the Phillies twice, moving to 2-1.

Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Well, we then went and got swept by the Dodgers in LA, and lost 2 of 3 in San Francisco. We were 3-8 heading into Arizona and lost the first game of that series.


Wrong again. The Pirates were 3-6 heading to Arizona, and 5-7 when they left the desert.

Charleston_Charlies wrote:
This isn't fun yet, but it isn't the first time we've been through this, and you've gotta believe the bats will come to life.


The problem I see is that sporadic power -- which is the strength of this lineup -- isn't particularly sustainable. The Pirates need more hitters who have a good batting eye and actually get on base. That kind of thing is sustainable.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Yeah, they started 2-1 over Phila, but those 2 wins were smoke and mirrors if I recall correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:36 pm 
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How can you say this 1-5 start isn't important? Do you get to replay these 6 games at the end of the season?? The spring training games weren't important, every regular season game has importance and the pirates look like a piss poor team.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:49 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The problem I see is that sporadic power -- which is the strength of this lineup -- isn't particularly sustainable. The Pirates need more hitters who have a good batting eye and actually get on base. That kind of thing is sustainable.

Well, if sporadic, unsustainable power, is the our strength, well, it's going to be a long season. Sporadic and power are not words that should be used together.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
How can you say this 1-5 start isn't important? Do you get to replay these 6 games at the end of the season?? The spring training games weren't important, every regular season game has importance and the pirates look like a piss poor team.


No one thinks that 1-5 isn't important, its the degree of importance. The world isn't black and white, we started similarly last year (2-6) and it did not prevent us reaching 16 games above .500 by summer. Try not to panic over 6 games, nothing meaningful will be known about this team until much further down the road. We all know the Pirates won't hit below the Mendoza line as a team, the upswing is inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:04 pm 
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I have this feeling the bucs are going to pull it together and start winning. Winning.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ryann wrote:
How can you say this 1-5 start isn't important? Do you get to replay these 6 games at the end of the season?? The spring training games weren't important, every regular season game has importance and the pirates look like a piss poor team.


No one thinks that 1-5 isn't important, its the degree of importance. The world isn't black and white, we started similarly last year (2-6) and it did not prevent us reaching 16 games above .500 by summer. Try not to panic over 6 games, nothing meaningful will be known about this team until much further down the road. We all know the Pirates won't hit below the Mendoza line as a team, the upswing is inevitable.


My concern is that these players don't have the mental fortitude to bounce back as a team if they come out of The Gauntlet at 11-21 or worse. I hope you're right, but we shall see.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:59 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
So much for Spring Training? What did this team work on in February and March? I thought this club would be improved from last year just because the core players have had another season under their belt?

Same bad baseball, same bad swings, same type of outs...all very predictable.

I know, I know, I know...it's early...BUT NOTHING this team is doing right now (or not doing) does not give me any hope for a successful season.


Seriously, not the 5 very good starts out of 6? Or the very good work by the backend of the pen? Or the fact that we were 2-6 last year?


Barrys, it seems that if a Pirate does well at this point (pitcher or position player) we're suppose to feel good about it? Well, after all of these years of losing, pitchers like Wandy who goes out and pitches a good game, or A.J., or a bullpen guy, or a position player like Cutch who has a good game, the Pirate fans should feel good about that?

These guys SHOULD be performing at a high level winning games for the Bucs. We seem to, as Pirate fans, lower our expectations and give these guys a pass when they are going bad.

I, for one, am tired of doing that.

And, this is a team sport and this TEAM is losing no matter if an individual is doing his JOB and performing to expectations.

I expect many of these Pirate players at this point to play well, pitch good games, hit the ball for hits, and WIN games.

This is the year for me for the Pirates to WIN as a team, or I expect heads to roll in management.

Nutting might have this franchise in good financial standing but this team has to prove that they can WIN consistently and finish the season strong...and they haven't done it yet.

How many more years will it be before that happens?

Sorry for my rant but that's how I feel.


So if Roethlisberger throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs but loses to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers or if Crosby gets a trick with a helper or two and the Pens lose, Steelers and Penguins fans aren't supposed to feel good about that?

I know the Pirates have lost for 20 years but to say that we can't be excited about a player's individual performance is absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Jolly, accolades and personal performances add up to post season awards and ceremonies, champagne and congradulations. In the heat of the moment its about winning to reach the ultimate team goal. If that isn't the goal then the players might as well give up and fans might as well stay home.

What the hell is the topic again?


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:31 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
These guys SHOULD be performing at a high level winning games for the Bucs. We seem to, as Pirate fans, lower our expectations and give these guys a pass when they are going bad.

I, for one, am tired of doing that.


Well said.

Sure the Bucs have faced a few 'aces' thusfar (nearly half), but that's really a piss poor excuse for a major league offense to perform this bad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah teams will have bad stretches and all, but this is an ongoing problem that may be indicative of something more than just 'bad stretch'.

All that said, it is 'still early' and the Bucs can still and have to come around in AZ. Hopefully success will breed success.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
So if Roethlisberger throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs but loses to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers or if Crosby gets a trick with a helper or two and the Pens lose, Steelers and Penguins fans aren't supposed to feel good about that?

I know the Pirates have lost for 20 years but to say that we can't be excited about a player's individual performance is absurd.


The way the Bucs have played through six the comparison would be more like if Troy racked up 20 tackles in a two+ touchdown loss, if Woodley had five/six sacks in a 14+ point loss or if Suisham made four FG's in a 10-14+ point loss, etc.

The Pirate's arms have been pretty stellar and the D has been solid enough, but they need to be firing in/on all facets at a decent clip.

80+% pitching, 60+% defense and 5% offense is not a winning formula.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:35 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
JollyRoger wrote:
So if Roethlisberger throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs but loses to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers or if Crosby gets a trick with a helper or two and the Pens lose, Steelers and Penguins fans aren't supposed to feel good about that?

I know the Pirates have lost for 20 years but to say that we can't be excited about a player's individual performance is absurd.


The way the Bucs have played through six the comparison would be more like if Troy racked up 20 tackles in a two+ touchdown loss, if Woodley had five/six sacks in a 14+ point loss or if Suisham made four FG's in a 10-14+ point loss, etc.

The Pirate's arms have been pretty stellar and the D has been solid enough, but they need to be firing in/on all facets at a decent clip.

80+% pitching, 60+% defense and 5% offense is not a winning formula.


I know it's not a winning formula but I just think the idea that we can't look at and be happy about the very few bright spots is beyond me.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ryann wrote:
How can you say this 1-5 start isn't important? Do you get to replay these 6 games at the end of the season?? The spring training games weren't important, every regular season game has importance and the pirates look like a piss poor team.


No one thinks that 1-5 isn't important, its the degree of importance. The world isn't black and white, we started similarly last year (2-6) and it did not prevent us reaching 16 games above .500 by summer. Try not to panic over 6 games, nothing meaningful will be known about this team until much further down the road. We all know the Pirates won't hit below the Mendoza line as a team, the upswing is inevitable.


My concern is that these players don't have the mental fortitude to bounce back as a team if they come out of The Gauntlet at 11-21 or worse. I hope you're right, but we shall see.



What if they show awesome mental fortitude but still can't hit?

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:34 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
What if they show awesome mental fortitude but still can't hit?


That's probably an even bigger problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:37 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
I know it's not a winning formula but I just think the idea that we can't look at and be happy about the very few bright spots is beyond me.


Yes, it is good to 'look on the bright side' during long dark stretches.

Still, it seems fair to expect a little more illumination from higher (labeled) wattage bulbs.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:15 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
This is as pathetic an offensive stretch as I can ever remember. Ever. That is the point.... :shock: :shock:

I don't know, last year when the Pirates were on pace to have the worst offensive team in baseball history deep into May takes the cake for me. Lot's of teams suck for a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuff to watch
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:18 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Agreed. Anybody remember starting the season 0-3 last year before winning two from the Phillies?


Actually, the Bucs started 0-1 and then beat the Phillies twice, moving to 2-1.

Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Well, we then went and got swept by the Dodgers in LA, and lost 2 of 3 in San Francisco. We were 3-8 heading into Arizona and lost the first game of that series.


Wrong again. The Pirates were 3-6 heading to Arizona, and 5-7 when they left the desert.

Charleston_Charlies wrote:
This isn't fun yet, but it isn't the first time we've been through this, and you've gotta believe the bats will come to life.


The problem I see is that sporadic power -- which is the strength of this lineup -- isn't particularly sustainable. The Pirates need more hitters who have a good batting eye and actually get on base. That kind of thing is sustainable.

I think you've nailed that. Power is streaky, but a good eye is a lot more consistent.

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