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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:17 pm 
Willton wrote:
garzalny wrote:
I haven't copied or pasted anything. You obviously don't kniow the rules to this game.

This is not supposed to be a game. This is supposed to be a discussion, one that can involve strong opinions but one that should not involve taking every opportunity to disparage those who disagree with you. If you think this is supposed to be a game then you've come to the wrong board.


This statement coming from you is hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:18 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
garzalny wrote:
I was going to say that you seem to be an apologist for the Nuttings, but you went way past that. Good job!

Go Bucs!

I'm an apologist because I disagree with you on how the team should run things?
.


No. You're an apologist because you defend virtually every move management makes. This "new" management team has made some good moves and some bad moves. The fact you continue to defend everything they do, despite a lack of any results, makes you an apologist.


What are some examples of the bad moves everyone defended? Management was quick to fix their mistakes when they made them and thats what most on here defended the management...

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:20 pm 
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If certain people spent half the amount of time talking about baseballl that they spend bitching about the way this board is run and other members of the board it would be a much more pleasant place, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:22 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
What are some examples of the bad moves everyone defended? Management was quick to fix their mistakes when they made them and thats what most on here defended the management...


Anointing the rotation as set last spring, for example. Now that NH himself has admitted it was a mistake, I'm sure Wilton will admit that. Last spring he chastised me for criticizing that move. Conveniently for him, the history from that period is no longer on this board.

Look at the false Nady trade threads, too. As it was reported, that would have been a horrible trade. It wasn't true, thankfully, but some even defended a move that wasn't even fact in response to criticism of management.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:23 pm 
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BBF wrote:
If certain people spent half the amount of time talking about baseballl that they spend bitching about the way this board is run and other members of the board it would be a much more pleasant place, no?


No one is forcing anyone to stay here, if you have a problem with things the way they are run, there's always the option of leaving...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:24 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Argentum wrote:
BBF wrote:
Back to the initial topic of the thread (before it was hijacked)- DK is now reporting that the Tigers are set to sign Everett and will not trade for JW. However, apparently a new suitor has emerged...the Twins. :?:


Detroit is obvoiusly punting on offensive production out of the ss position. Everett is Rey Ordonez part deux. However they'll save a ton of money over Wilson and probably get slightly less offense.


Jack is probably also better defensively, assuming he stays healthy. However, he is not a "Joyce" or "Larish" better than Everett.


BBF, I know quite a few people who think Everett is better than Jack with the glove. I've only seen Everett play a few times when he was with Houston and thought he was really smooth with well above average range and a strong arm. I don't hink Jack has his range. Of course this could all be moot if Everett hasn't fully recovered from the broken leg. If the 2004 or 2007 Wilson shows up, it aint even close offensively though. Detroit is probably banking on the 2008 Wilson, hence the signing of Everett.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:25 pm 
BBF wrote:
If certain people spent half the amount of time talking about baseballl that they spend bitching about the way this board is run and other members of the board it would be a much more pleasant place, no?


And if certain posters respected opposing view points, that would make it a more pleasant place. Or if certain mods were objective when it comes to treatment of posters, or if these even responded to multiple requests asking what the rules on personal attacks and profanity were, that would make it a more pleasant place too.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:26 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
BBF wrote:
If certain people spent half the amount of time talking about baseballl that they spend bitching about the way this board is run and other members of the board it would be a much more pleasant place, no?


No one is forcing anyone to stay here, if you have a problem with things the way they are run, there's always the option of leaving...


Exactly. I choose to stay for the good baseball talk. I'm willing to sift through the BS to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:28 pm 
Kingston wrote:
Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


I'm with you. I'd like to see Delmon in a Bucs uniform for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


I don't know, the rumors had Young to the Phils for Jason Donald...a SS prospect who looks much better than Jack.

And let's not forget that one year ago, Young was worth Garza and Bartlett. Granted Garza has rapidly appreciated in value and Young has depreciated to some extent IMO. But no way is Jack worth Young, even if we picked up most of his salary. Maybe if we eat salary and include Grabow? Eh, who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


I'm with you. I'd like to see Delmon in a Bucs uniform for sure.


Alot of upside there, alot of talent. And Im pretty sure they said its gonna be Span, Gonzalez and Cuddyer in the OF (Kubel DHing).


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:35 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


I don't know, the rumors had Young to the Phils for Jason Donald...a SS prospect who looks much better than Jack.

And let's not forget that one year ago, Young was worth Garza and Bartlett. Granted Garza has rapidly appreciated in value and Young has depreciated to some extent IMO. But no way is Jack worth Young, even if we picked up most of his salary. Maybe if we eat salary and include Grabow? Eh, who knows.


Well, I said it was wishful thinking :)

But keep in mind, the Phils arent giving up Donald so fast. Even if they would, hes not ready for the majors yet and if Minnesota is thinking about '09 then Jack has greater immediate appeal.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:44 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
BBF wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Probably just wishful thinking here, but is Delmon Young such a reach if we pick up some of Jacks salary? Minn has already said he'll be platooning at best.


I don't know, the rumors had Young to the Phils for Jason Donald...a SS prospect who looks much better than Jack.

And let's not forget that one year ago, Young was worth Garza and Bartlett. Granted Garza has rapidly appreciated in value and Young has depreciated to some extent IMO. But no way is Jack worth Young, even if we picked up most of his salary. Maybe if we eat salary and include Grabow? Eh, who knows.


Well, I said it was wishful thinking :)

But keep in mind, the Phils arent giving up Donald so fast. Even if they would, hes not ready for the majors yet and if Minnesota is thinking about '09 then Jack has greater immediate appeal.


True on both points. And don't get me wrong, if we can get Young, we should definitely go for it. I just think this is one case where expectations are too high, and then people will bitch and moan about how little we get in return, which in reality will probably be closer to real value.

To get an idea of how fans outside of Pittsburgh view Jack's value, check out this Dodger's blog (just ignore the photoshop of JW's face being replaced with a pile of shit):

http://www.dodgerblues.com/content/news.html


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:49 pm 
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BBF wrote:
To get an idea of how fans outside of Pittsburgh view Jack's value, check out this Dodger's blog (just ignore the photoshop of JW's face being replaced with a pile of shit):

http://www.dodgerblues.com/content/news.html


I can attest to this as well. I've been lurking at a few Detroit Tigers forums (one being motowntigers.com) and the sentiment is the same: Jack is grossly overrated with a commensurate salary to boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:49 pm 
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To get an idea of how fans outside of Pittsburgh view Jack's value, check out this Dodger's blog (just ignore the photoshop of JW's face being replaced with a pile of shit):


Im guessing the majority view isnt entirely complimentary :)


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:52 pm 
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Those Dodger guys sure do alot of CRAP on photoshop...What do they know...

Once a few more free agent SS's are signed, Jack's value will fall in place and we'll see who is actually interested in Jack...

I'm thinking a package deal is the only way to get something big for Jack...like Grabow and Jack...thats probably the best possibility at getting a prospect in return

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For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:08 pm 
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From Rotoworld:

The Tigers and free agent Adam Everett have reportedly come to terms on a one-year, $1 million contract.


Good luck with that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
BBF wrote:
If certain people spent half the amount of time talking about baseballl that they spend bitching about the way this board is run and other members of the board it would be a much more pleasant place, no?


No one is forcing anyone to stay here, if you have a problem with things the way they are run, there's always the option of leaving...


Exactly. I choose to stay for the good baseball talk. I'm willing to sift through the BS to do it.


You must have more intestinal fortitude than I do Elmer. If you have any kind of difference of opinion with a few posters here or with the mod who seems to specialize in personal attacks, it's kinda hard to sort through all of that crap and talk about baseball...and BTW...talking about baseball includes talking about the management, or lack thereof, of this team.

If you want to talk about something really stupid this team had done, you don't have to go any further than to bring up the playing of Nyjer Fricking Morgan ahead of Steve Pearce at the end of last year. They took a few hundred ABs away from Pearce, who the jury is out on, to give them to Morgan, whose game is as evident as anything on the team. Pearce has real promise as a hitter. Morgan has nothing...a fast guy who can't run the bases, a really fast guy who can't field his position and has to make diving catches because he takes awful routes to the ball, has zero power, but hey, he smiles alot and has a great attitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:07 pm 
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At the risk of being a lousy "apologist", I agree about Morgan and Pearce. I dont understand this love that now 2 managers have shown for Morgan, a viable 4th outfielder but nothing more.


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