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 Post subject: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:22 pm 
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Newark Star Ledger is reporting that Jack to the Tigers is a done deal. No word yet on the return.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/12/detroit_tigers_acquire_ss_jack.html

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:29 pm 
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Wow, someone cited the Star Ledger here? I'm impressed. Go Jersey!

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:19 pm 
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Quote:
No Jack Wilson Deal
By Tim Dierkes [December 4 at 12:14pm CST]
12:14pm: Dejan Kovacevic talked to Pirates president Frank Coonelly, who said Wilson has not been traded. The Tigers apparently made an interesting offer last night for Wilson, but the Dodgers remain in the mix.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:27 pm 
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If true, it might bode well (or not, depending on your perspective) of obtaining Lowell. I gotta think NH will have some type of SS replacement in place for this deal to happen.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:06 pm 
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I want this to happen, but we will see.
I wouldn't mind getting Danny Worth. He looks like a nice defensive SS with a quality doubles swing and decent plate patience.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Even if the deal goes down, I can't see the Pirates receiving anything worth getting excited over. I mean Wilson makes a ton of money, has one year left on his contract, and plays a position that Detroit will be looking to fill (Cale Iorg) from within by 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Cale Iorg is no shoo in.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:53 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Cale Iorg is no shoo in.


No minor leaguer is.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Since we wont possibly contend before Jacks current contract runs out, hes virtually valueless to us. Any prospect capable of being productive down the road when it counts is a reasonable return, and if NH can secure one he should be commended.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:02 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Since we wont possibly contend before Jacks current contract runs out, hes virtually valueless to us. Any prospect capable of being productive down the road when it counts is a reasonable return, and if NH can secure one he should be commended.

Agreed. The problem lies in securing one: who would be willing to give us one, and how capable of a prospect would said team be willing to relinquish?

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:04 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
If true, it might bode well (or not, depending on your perspective) of obtaining Lowell. I gotta think NH will have some type of SS replacement in place for this deal to happen.

ZM

Lowell? Are you speaking of Mike Lowell, 3B of the Red Sox?

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:16 pm 
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Sorry, no, confused Lowell with Lorretta.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Since we wont possibly contend before Jacks current contract runs out, hes virtually valueless to us. Any prospect capable of being productive down the road when it counts is a reasonable return, and if NH can secure one he should be commended.

Agreed. The problem lies in securing one: who would be willing to give us one, and how capable of a prospect would said team be willing to relinquish?


I cant answer that with any certainty, obviously, but like the rest of you Im watching this Tigers situation closely. And when considering what level of talent we might see in return, look, a strong bat off the bench when we're 2 games out has more value than an All Star shortstop when we're 19 games out. Im obviously exaggerating to make a point, its just that with JW all but certain to have no role on a contending Pirate team, anything we get for him is found money.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:29 pm 
I have no problem trading Wilson, they just need to get a SS in return (directly or indirectly - free agent). There are no Major League Caliber SSs on the roster, in my opinion.

Also, hopefully a SS prospect will be part of any deal. If you don't ultimately upgrade at the position with someone better than Jack, then I'm not a fan of trading him.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I have no problem trading Wilson, they just need to get a SS in return (directly or indirectly - free agent). There are no Major League Caliber SSs on the roster, in my opinion.

Also, hopefully a SS prospect will be part of any deal. If you don't ultimately upgrade at the position with someone better than Jack, then I'm not a fan of trading him.


I see your point, but we'll be lucky to get one bona fide prospect back. I would rather get back one kid with the highest possible upside.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:39 pm 
Kingston wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I have no problem trading Wilson, they just need to get a SS in return (directly or indirectly - free agent). There are no Major League Caliber SSs on the roster, in my opinion.

Also, hopefully a SS prospect will be part of any deal. If you don't ultimately upgrade at the position with someone better than Jack, then I'm not a fan of trading him.


I see your point, but we'll be lucky to get one bona fide prospect back. I would rather get back one kid with the highest possible upside.


I'm all about getting a good prospect back. They also, though, need someone to play the position this year. They've saved a ton of money with these trades. I hope they spend some on a SS for 2009.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I have no problem trading Wilson, they just need to get a SS in return (directly or indirectly - free agent). There are no Major League Caliber SSs on the roster, in my opinion.

Also, hopefully a SS prospect will be part of any deal. If you don't ultimately upgrade at the position with someone better than Jack, then I'm not a fan of trading him.


I see your point, but we'll be lucky to get one bona fide prospect back. I would rather get back one kid with the highest possible upside.


I'm all about getting a good prospect back. They also, though, need someone to play the position this year. They've saved a ton of money with these trades. I hope they spend some on a SS for 2009.


Tell you the truth, for all the good it will do us in '09, I dont care if they stick Honus Wagner's corpse out there at shortstop. Each and every trade chip we can use to make us more viable in 3 years should be used, regardless of the immediate consequences. We're gonna lose over 90 games next year no matter what, so if its 90 or 100 or 110, does it matter?


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:52 pm 
Kingston wrote:
Tell you the truth, for all the good it will do us in '09, I dont care if they stick Honus Wagner's corpse out there at shortstop. Each and every trade chip we can use to make us more viable in 3 years should be used, regardless of the immediate consequences. We're gonna lose over 90 games next year no matter what, so if its 90 or 100 or 110, does it matter?


I see what you mean, and I'm all about legitimately building for the future. I'm all about each trade chip that cam make us contend in a couple years.

But I don't believe in raising the white flag on a season before it begins. I think you still have to field a major league team, and you need a major league shortstop.

I'd get the propspects by trading jack, then sign someone -- no superstar, just a guy with a proven major league glove -- to play ss this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Tell you the truth, for all the good it will do us in '09, I dont care if they stick Honus Wagner's corpse out there at shortstop. Each and every trade chip we can use to make us more viable in 3 years should be used, regardless of the immediate consequences. We're gonna lose over 90 games next year no matter what, so if its 90 or 100 or 110, does it matter?


I see what you mean, and I'm all about legitimately building for the future. I'm all about each trade chip that cam make us contend in a couple years.

But I don't believe in raising the white flag on a season before it begins. I think you still have to field a major league team, and you need a major league shortstop.

I'd get the propspects by trading jack, then sign someone -- no superstar, just a guy with a proven major league glove -- to play ss this year.


For what its worth, in the last hour or so the Associated Press reported the talks with LA could be back on (more noise?). And that the Tigers have turned their attention to Adam Everett, the kind of player we'll probably end up with ourselves if jack is shipped out.


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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again: Jack to Detroit?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:14 pm 
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First off, I don't know if I can stomach Brian Bixler in a Pirates uniform, let alone the Opening Day starter for the Bucs...

My thought on trading Wilson is if the only thing stopping the Pirates from pulling the trigger is the other team wants the Pirates to pay a portion of his remaining contract, go for it. If the Pirates receive a very good prospect in return (SS notably) look at it like a signing bonus for a draft pick. It's an investment toward the future.

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