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 Post subject: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:34 pm 
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I know that I will take flack for making this statement but here it goes. Even if the Pirates are close to contention in July, we need to make arrangements to sell both AJ Burnett and Wandy Rodriguez. We are in a power position, we have the opportunity to bring up two players from our minor league to replace them. There aren't many teams who can make a deal that will be able to replace them.
The other reason I say this is we won't be "forced" to trade these guys and other teams might be willing to over pay for two pitchers like AJ and Wandy. We might be able to trade for great catcher (minor league who is major league ready-top prospect only.) Perhaps we can get another arm, perhaps a left handed future closer. I am still of the notion that most games are won in the 7th, 8th and 9th inning. If you have three guys who can shut it down in close games during those innings, you will win 80% of those games.

Honestly, I'd like to see a #2 hitting shortstop who can shutdown the left side.

I am sure that we will trade Snider or Sanchez. Both have great potential. If it is Jones who gets traded they might get more.

Either way, trading both pitchers, we hold the cards and can sell high and finally get a great return.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah.

Slow down, buddy. You might hurt yourself.

It's April 1st. Let's at least watch, you know, a couple of baseball games before we decide who the Pirates need to trade or need to keep. I'm thinking that we'll all probably have better-informed opinions come June and July...


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Isnt Wandy signed through next season, with the Astros still paying him too? Burnett is still pretty much being paid by the Yankees and the talk was he is mulling retirement or coming back to Pittsburgh...

I agree with JC, it's too early to be talking trading guys.

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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Both are FA at the end of the season. This team showed that it has the potential for stars to perform at a high level. All I am saying is that we need to hope that both Burnett and Rodriguez pitch very well so they can command top level talent in return. I would hate to see this team under perform from the start and two guys who have the opportunity to make this team stronger, either down the stretch or over the next five years deminish the level of talent that we have trade for.

Burnett has already said that this will be his final season. If he could be coaxed back to playing it would only be for one season and it would only be for the Pirates. However I don't think they will pay 16.5m for him again.

We still must sign Walker to a longer term contract and that could cost us 45m + over 5 years and going into next season, which might be a real battle because of the way they structured McCutchen's contract. Cutch gets 4.5m this season 7.5 next, 10m in 2015, 13, in 2014 and 14m in 2015.

With that type of money being distributed we won't be picking up FA to replace those guys and the spots that we need to replace can only come from guys like AJ and Wandy's trade factor.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:36 pm 
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No.

I am a big AJ fan but he won't net us anything special. I'd rather see him in a Pirates uniform all year than get some mediocre at best player in his place.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:34 pm 
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johnswahoo wrote:
I know that I will take flack for making this statement but here it goes. Even if the Pirates are close to contention in July, we need to make arrangements to sell both AJ Burnett and Wandy Rodriguez. We are in a power position, we have the opportunity to bring up two players from our minor league to replace them. There aren't many teams who can make a deal that will be able to replace them.
The other reason I say this is we won't be "forced" to trade these guys and other teams might be willing to over pay for two pitchers like AJ and Wandy. We might be able to trade for great catcher (minor league who is major league ready-top prospect only.) Perhaps we can get another arm, perhaps a left handed future closer. I am still of the notion that most games are won in the 7th, 8th and 9th inning. If you have three guys who can shut it down in close games during those innings, you will win 80% of those games.

Honestly, I'd like to see a #2 hitting shortstop who can shutdown the left side.

I am sure that we will trade Snider or Sanchez. Both have great potential. If it is Jones who gets traded they might get more.

Either way, trading both pitchers, we hold the cards and can sell high and finally get a great return.

You're not going to get a great anything for AJ or Wandy, and just about every team in baseball would like to have a top of the order shortstop who plays great defense. Those that have them aren't trading them away.

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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:35 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Isnt Wandy signed through next season, with the Astros still paying him too? Burnett is still pretty much being paid by the Yankees and the talk was he is mulling retirement or coming back to Pittsburgh...

I agree with JC, it's too early to be talking trading guys.

Wandy has a players option for next year at $13.5M, I think. It became a players option when he was traded away from Houston.

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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:45 pm 
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A little confused, you want Burnett and Wandy to pitch well so we can get something for them in a trade but... If they pitch well doesn't that mean we are in a playoff race ourselves? Would we want to trade 2 Pitchers pitching well if that was the case? I don't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:08 pm 
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I think you are missing the point. Lets use yesterday as an example, 5 2/3 10k and 3 runs given up. Not a horrible outing, if he got timely hits and and run support things would have gone better and he would have got the win. The goal for this team should be to win the World Series. If winning to get over the hump of .500 is the goal then yes, keep both pitchers.
It is obvious that many people believe the Pirates will continue to make deals like the one they did with Cutch. To be honest, if they had to make the deal at the end of last season they would have paid double. If you don't think that he won't be looking for more money by 2015 with the increase success of this team we are kidding ourselves. I wouldn't doubt that he holds out for a new contract that season.
Why, look at those who have signed a contract since last season, big-big-big numbers.
Buster Posey got paid and I personally don't think he is as good. Definately not 115.5 million dollars more.
I am sure this team is struggling to try and make a deal that will keep Walker here. I wouldn't be surprised that they trade him because they can't pay him. If he is an Ian Kinsler type player it will cost at least 10m to start. Kinsler is getting 13m this year. I don't know they will pay him that amount.
Its obvious that this ownership does not listen to the public. So when we discuss the Pirates, we can't do it from an emotional stand point and look at it from the postion the Pirates ownership does. Moving Burnett to get cheap players in return will mostly likely happen and they won't want to kick in 13.5 for Wandy next season, so they will get rid of him.

At the end of the season our rotation will look something like this

P---G. Cole
P---J. Taillon
P---F. Liriano
P---C. Morton
P---J. McDonald

If we keep both Burnett and Wandy, tell me how bring up Cole and Taillon this year?

Don't be surprised if Grilli goes too---Hughes will be our closer. That is why I didn't worry when they moved Hanrahan.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Cutch and Walker are going to be here for several more years so forgive me for not worrying about the day they have to be traded.

I'm pretty sure that if Wandy invokes his option for next year, which he probably will, Houston is on the hook for a good portion of that.

Taillon is probably not going to be in the rotation this year. His timetable suggest next June.

Building a solid rotation is the key for now and forever. I don't know if Burnett and Rodriguez will be part of that next year, but they might be.

Winning the World Series is the eventual goal, but that is highly unlikely, this year or any year. I want to see the team break .500 and sell lots of tickets this year. Contention is a bonus. Next year, if we add a piece or two to the offense and come out with a solid rotation, we can be serious contenders.


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:11 pm 
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johnswahoo wrote:
I think you are missing the point. Lets use yesterday as an example, 5 2/3 10k and 3 runs given up. Not a horrible outing, if he got timely hits and and run support things would have gone better and he would have got the win. The goal for this team should be to win the World Series. If winning to get over the hump of .500 is the goal then yes, keep both pitchers.
It is obvious that many people believe the Pirates will continue to make deals like the one they did with Cutch. To be honest, if they had to make the deal at the end of last season they would have paid double. If you don't think that he won't be looking for more money by 2015 with the increase success of this team we are kidding ourselves. I wouldn't doubt that he holds out for a new contract that season.
Why, look at those who have signed a contract since last season, big-big-big numbers.
Buster Posey got paid and I personally don't think he is as good. Definately not 115.5 million dollars more.
I am sure this team is struggling to try and make a deal that will keep Walker here. I wouldn't be surprised that they trade him because they can't pay him. If he is an Ian Kinsler type player it will cost at least 10m to start. Kinsler is getting 13m this year. I don't know they will pay him that amount.
Its obvious that this ownership does not listen to the public. So when we discuss the Pirates, we can't do it from an emotional stand point and look at it from the postion the Pirates ownership does. Moving Burnett to get cheap players in return will mostly likely happen and they won't want to kick in 13.5 for Wandy next season, so they will get rid of him.

At the end of the season our rotation will look something like this

P---G. Cole
P---J. Taillon
P---F. Liriano
P---C. Morton
P---J. McDonald

If we keep both Burnett and Wandy, tell me how bring up Cole and Taillon this year?

Don't be surprised if Grilli goes too---Hughes will be our closer. That is why I didn't worry when they moved Hanrahan.


Let me see.
You are declaring with a little more run support the pitcher's outing would be fine?
So shouldn't you be wittering about doing something about the batters rather than the pitching?

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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:06 pm 
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johnswahoo wrote:
I think you are missing the point. Lets use yesterday as an example, 5 2/3 10k and 3 runs given up. Not a horrible outing, if he got timely hits and and run support things would have gone better and he would have got the win. The goal for this team should be to win the World Series. If winning to get over the hump of .500 is the goal then yes, keep both pitchers.
It is obvious that many people believe the Pirates will continue to make deals like the one they did with Cutch. To be honest, if they had to make the deal at the end of last season they would have paid double. If you don't think that he won't be looking for more money by 2015 with the increase success of this team we are kidding ourselves. I wouldn't doubt that he holds out for a new contract that season.
Why, look at those who have signed a contract since last season, big-big-big numbers.
Buster Posey got paid and I personally don't think he is as good. Definately not 115.5 million dollars more.
I am sure this team is struggling to try and make a deal that will keep Walker here. I wouldn't be surprised that they trade him because they can't pay him. If he is an Ian Kinsler type player it will cost at least 10m to start. Kinsler is getting 13m this year. I don't know they will pay him that amount.
Its obvious that this ownership does not listen to the public. So when we discuss the Pirates, we can't do it from an emotional stand point and look at it from the postion the Pirates ownership does. Moving Burnett to get cheap players in return will mostly likely happen and they won't want to kick in 13.5 for Wandy next season, so they will get rid of him.

At the end of the season our rotation will look something like this

P---G. Cole
P---J. Taillon
P---F. Liriano
P---C. Morton
P---J. McDonald

If we keep both Burnett and Wandy, tell me how bring up Cole and Taillon this year?

Don't be surprised if Grilli goes too---Hughes will be our closer. That is why I didn't worry when they moved Hanrahan.

You're not likely to be seeing Taillon at the end of this year, except in a September callup role. And, while the Pirates have a lot of rotation options as the year goes forward, I'm not placing any bets that Liriano, Morton and McDonald all pitch well enough to stick in the rotation.

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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:14 am 
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I can agree on one thing...Morton, Liriano and McDonald might not be worthy of being in the rotation at the end of the season. I for one keep hoping that McDonald can stop being his own worst enemy. His first half was one of the best put together by a Pirate in a long time. He has some nasty stuff. Liriano, can be a great pitcher but he too can't seem to put long streaks of greatness. No hitter, next game blown out. Morton can't stay healthy.

With what we have this year, I am expecting a season where we teeter on the .500 mark all season.
I think we can all agree that this team has some holes but we also have guys with potential and guys who can and are potential superstars in the league.

What gets this team over the hump? And how does the front office accomplish that?


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 Post subject: Re: My take on Burnett and Rodriguez
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:48 am 
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What gets us over the hump is when some of these guys that have the potential to become solid major leaguers actually become solid major leaguers. If we can fill a couple holes from within, and only have one or two holes to fill from outside next offseason, we can field a more complete team next year.


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