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 Post subject: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:43 am 
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http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/3646941-74/camp-spring-taillon#axzz2NQmg0YRq

Including Sands and Robinson.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:25 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:


Nothing surprising for sure, there are only a few battles on the roster.

Backup IF - DeJesus, Harrison, Mercer, D'arnaud

5th bench spot - Presley, Inge, and losers of the IF race

SP - seems set with AJ, Wandy, JMac, KMac, Locke (Karsty and Liriano start on the DL) unless they only carry 4 due to schedule off days

RP - 5 are set with Grilli, Watson, Hughes, Melancon, Morris leaving two spots for Wilson (2nd lefty), Leroux, Brown, Mazzaro.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:47 pm 
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For the position players, I'd like to see this:

Starters

C Russell Martin
1B Garrett Jones
2B Neil Walker
3B Pedro Alvarez
SS Clint Barmes
LF Starling Marte
CF Andrew McCutchen
RF Travis Snider

Bench

1B/3B Gaby Sanchez
OF Jose Tabata
C Michael McKenry
INF Ivan DeJesus, Jr.
OF Alex Presley

I'd want Hurdle to have at least one lefty bat off the bench, and I don't think Inge is worth bringing north.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
...there are only a few battles on the roster.

Backup IF - DeJesus, Harrison, Mercer, D'arnaud

5th bench spot - Presley, Inge, and losers of the IF race


Harrison seems like a 'lock' seeing as how he can 'handle' (or at least fill in at) 2B, 3B, SS and any of the OF spots, right?

If so, that would leave the last battle as Inge vs. the young uns. If not, it will be interesting to see who the Bucs choose as 5th bench player.

Barrys Dopers wrote:
SP - seems set with AJ, Wandy, JMac, KMac, Locke (Karsty and Liriano start on the DL) unless they only carry 4 due to schedule off days


Seems set and seeming with potential.

Barrys Dopers wrote:
RP - 5 are set with Grilli, Watson, Hughes, Melancon, Morris leaving two spots for Wilson (2nd lefty), Leroux, Brown, Mazzaro.


Who is Brown again?

It would be nice to see Wilson get his shot and find (or get groomed for) a role. Still, whoever proves the be the better man for the last spot(s) should be good enough for the job they'll have to do.

Can't wait for opening day!

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Brooks Brown a minor league FA that they seem to really like, he is a failed SP from the Tigers organization -

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... own-001bro


I just saw that Tony Watson is fighting a physical issue, looks like Justin Wilson could get more than just a shot.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:43 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
For the position players, I'd like to see this:

Starters

C Russell Martin
1B Garrett Jones
2B Neil Walker
3B Pedro Alvarez
SS Clint Barmes
LF Starling Marte
CF Andrew McCutchen
RF Travis Snider

Bench

1B/3B Gaby Sanchez
OF Jose Tabata
C Michael McKenry


It's a virtual lock that some variation of those guys will fill the opening day roster (and it looks pretty good on paper), so for comparison...:

2008 (NH/Russell year 0 AKA the year that alienated a lot of people):
C Doumit
1B LaRoche
2B Freddy
3B Joey Bats
SS Jack Flash
LF J Bay
CF Nate
RF X-Man
P Snell

2010 (the low point/57 win season):
C Doumit
1B Jeff Clement (this is not a typo)
2B Aki
3B ANDY LaRoche
SS Ronny Cedeno
LF Elijah Dukes... er, Milledge
CF Cutch
RF GI Jones
P Duke

---

With a little perspective, this club looks pretty dang good. If nothing else, the 2013 Bucs seem like a younger, and better (more 'collective') version that the 'beloved' 2008 squad.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:15 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
3B Joey Bats



*mutters obscenities under breath*

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:54 pm 
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I think Zagurski makes the team. Lefty, deals in the low 90's, really tough on lefties (as a LOOGY needs to be), some experience.

Justin Wilson's control problems are better addressed as a SP'er in Indianapolis, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:00 pm 
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KMac threw 5 scoreless against a decent Philly lineup today.

Zagurski gave up the game winning HR to lefty Pete Orr in the 8th. Zagurski's AAA/MLB walk rates are just as bad as Wilson's and he was a minor league reliever. I have more faith in Wilson showing better control in the pen.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:49 pm 
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The Pirates will surely stick to their bizarre insistence on always having two back-up infielders. I suppose it's basically between two of Mercer, Harrison, DeJesus and Inge. I like Mercer's defense a lot and would love to see him get a spot, but I don't really predict them giving up on Harrison at this point. Inge can play third but well, he's 35 and Brandon Inge. DeJesus is a wildcard because we don't really have any gauge on what the organization's plans are for him, he's having a great spring at the plate.

I also take Wilson over Zagurski in the pen but it might ultimately be a wash.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:47 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
3B Joey Bats



*mutters obscenities under breath*


Why do people get so upset over this? Is it the Pirates fault that he decided to be come a good player at the age of 29, 3 years AFTER we dumped him? How would everyone stand it if we continued to trot him out there as he put up .230 batting averages and .700 OPS at a premium power position? Blame the Pirates on giving up on him too soon at age 27 but lets dump Tabata as he is a bust for sure at age 24.

I'm sorry if I over reacted to the Joey Bats comment.....I am constantly hearing the FO being bashed for this when I can't really blame them or the other 5 teams that dumped him. If anyone thinks that Toronto would have stuck with him for as long as they did if the team was good, they are kidding themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:03 pm 
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The Pirates had an extremely talented player under their control. They failed to recognize and develop that talent, and traded him for next to nothing. They absolutely deserve criticism for that.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:59 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
3B Joey Bats



*mutters obscenities under breath*


Why do people get so upset over this? Is it the Pirates fault that he decided to be come a good player at the age of 29, 3 years AFTER we dumped him? How would everyone stand it if we continued to trot him out there as he put up .230 batting averages and .700 OPS at a premium power position? Blame the Pirates on giving up on him too soon at age 27 but lets dump Tabata as he is a bust for sure at age 24.

I'm sorry if I over reacted to the Joey Bats comment.....I am constantly hearing the FO being bashed for this when I can't really blame them or the other 5 teams that dumped him. If anyone thinks that Toronto would have stuck with him for as long as they did if the team was good, they are kidding themselves.



Did I bash anybody at all with that post? So yes, by reacting at all you overreacted.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
The Pirates had an extremely talented player under their control.


Complete revisionist history. Bautista certainly did NOT display that "extreme" talent while in Pittsburgh. His best season he hit 15 HR's with 63 RBI's to go along with 101 Strikeouts (110 the year before). Not exactly Hall-of-Fame numbers. His career batting as a Pirate was 317 hits in 1,314 AB's for a whopping .241 batting average for parts of 5 seasons.

After playing for 5 different teams as a journeyman, he "magically" triples his home-run totals in one year from any other season. THAT smells fishy, but back to the original point... you want to blame the Front Office for allowing an "extremely talented player" to get away. That's complete revisionist history, because he showed nothing as a Pirate.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Jose Bautista, even when traded, was more valuable than Robinzon Diaz, who was out of baseball at 25 years of age. That trade was a fail because it brought back a crappy player.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:43 pm 
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All I'm saying is that it sucks that we had Joey Bautista and now he's awesome and not a Bucco. Relaxxxxxxx.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:15 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Jose Bautista, even when traded, was more valuable than Robinzon Diaz, who was out of baseball at 25 years of age. That trade was a fail because it brought back a crappy player.


Truth, there was no reason to dump him for nothing regardless of his impending breakout.

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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Jose Bautista, even when traded, was more valuable than Robinzon Diaz, who was out of baseball at 25 years of age. That trade was a fail because it brought back a crappy player.


Truth, there was no reason to dump him for nothing regardless of his impending breakout.


There was actually, his salary was about to jump, for a player who showed nothing. His break out hear was 2 and a half years AFTER we dumped him, there was nothing impending about nor was it predicted by anyone, not even Toronto.


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:35 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
rellimie wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:


*mutters obscenities under breath*


Why do people get so upset over this? Is it the Pirates fault that he decided to be come a good player at the age of 29, 3 years AFTER we dumped him? How would everyone stand it if we continued to trot him out there as he put up .230 batting averages and .700 OPS at a premium power position? Blame the Pirates on giving up on him too soon at age 27 but lets dump Tabata as he is a bust for sure at age 24.

I'm sorry if I over reacted to the Joey Bats comment.....I am constantly hearing the FO being bashed for this when I can't really blame them or the other 5 teams that dumped him. If anyone thinks that Toronto would have stuck with him for as long as they did if the team was good, they are kidding themselves.



Did I bash anybody at all with that post? So yes, by reacting at all you overreacted.


I apologize, I literally just had a full out argument with a family member last night about Bautista, may have taken some frustration out on this post LOL


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 Post subject: Re: 11 players cut
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:38 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Jose Bautista, even when traded, was more valuable than Robinzon Diaz, who was out of baseball at 25 years of age. That trade was a fail because it brought back a crappy player.


That is also untrue. We traded a 27 year old, about to be 28 year old player who showed nothing in 6 years and traded him for a 24 year old C (a position of need at the time, and still is) who was young enough to have some potential (not to be a superstar) but at least serviceable, something Bautista was not nor has ever been. Jose only played power positions with no power.


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