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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Well, the last time I talked to him he was....he is in Iraq. I talk to his mom from time to time....she is obviously worried, but says he's doing OK considering. He has no more medical issues since the tumor was removed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:54 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
He would sign for what they got. He wants to play. Money still not a ruling factor in his life. Other than of course, spending as much of mine before he leaves on his own accord...

When he read it in the paper today he texted me...he wrote "That is a disgrace."

D Backs scorer that I have lunch with every day, laughed. He called it a PR stunt. I agree.

What a joke.


And yet bot the Yanks and Red Sox, among others were in line to sign them up.

How is spending $40K in bonuses for guys with potential, a disgrace?

Ah well, the same was said when teams signed the first Japanese and Korean players as well.

Not to mention the grief St. Louis took signing, then playing Kurt Warner from the Arena League.

ZM


What you fail to mention is that people actually play baseball in Japan, Korea, the Dominican Republic, etc, and teams were signing actual baseball players that came from these countries. We just signed two friggin cricket players for crying out loud. The one kid throws between 77-84 mph? Hell, I can throw above 77 regularly and 84 on a real good day, where do I sign?

What a joke. Only the Pirates. If this is being done because the only team citizens in a country of 1.1 billion can name is now the Pittsburgh Pirates, that tells me that this is a country that doesn't have any baseball whatsoever, so what's the point? How is it any different from a hockey team scouting in South America? They don't play hockey in South America and they don't play baseball in India. They could spend that 40k on better Zambelli fireworks or a better menu for Aramark and would it still be put to better use.

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Last edited by omgardd on Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:26 am 
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To actually win the contest, one had to throw 85+ for strikes.

But, I suspect whatever they did it would not be enough for you.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:02 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:

But, I suspect whatever they did it would not be enough for you.

ZM



Wrong again. Instead of cricket players, how about trying to sign this kid that the White Sox just got or others like him:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball ... 08.article

You know, the 19-20 year old kids from the Dominican or Cuba who actually grew up playing baseball and already know how to play the game. Instead of signing cricket players from India who have about a 10% chance to work out, the White Sox are down in Cuba signing prodigies like Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo (signed to a very affordable 4 year 11 million dollar contract)

This would've been a big step in the right direction to "being enough for me", but sadly the Pirates are nowhere to be seen in the bidding for these types of players and its sad that it took them until January of this year to decide that they need to be more dilligent in having a presence in Latin America.

What is with you guys and your haughty attitudes towards anything critical of the Pirates? Geesh.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:20 am 
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nd this is a stunt the bucco's have tried before. This time with an American. I had a kid that played little league baseball for me. He was an exceptional athlete. He was an outfielder and when he went to a pirate try out and the scouts saw his arm strenth throwing the ball from center field they stood him on the mound. 95 mph. No wear and tear on the arm. No pitching experience. Signed sealed and delivered. After some tweaking the coaches had him up to 98 MPH. The problem was that he couldnt get anyone out. His secondary pitched were not good enough. After two years he had Tommy John and was gone from baseball. Funny how the Pirate coaching staff seems to get that result.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-99963956.html


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:44 am 
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Steelkings wrote:
nd this is a stunt the bucco's have tried before. This time with an American. I had a kid that played little league baseball for me. He was an exceptional athlete. He was an outfielder and when he went to a pirate try out and the scouts saw his arm strenth throwing the ball from center field they stood him on the mound. 95 mph. No wear and tear on the arm. No pitching experience. Signed sealed and delivered. After some tweaking the coaches had him up to 98 MPH. The problem was that he couldnt get anyone out. His secondary pitched were not good enough. After two years he had Tommy John and was gone from baseball. Funny how the Pirate coaching staff seems to get that result.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-99963956.html


Exactly my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:20 pm 
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omgardd wrote:

What is with you guys and your haughty attitudes towards anything critical of the Pirates? Geesh.


I'm not haughty towards warranted criticism. Your whole post is as if two player signed at combined $40K and that have shown an ability to throw hard, and a willingness to work through the minors to achieve it, was done in some kind of vacuum while ignoring central America.

In case you haven't heard, or as I suspect, just ignore so that you CAN criticize...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08336/931871-63.stm

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:03 am 
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Nope, haven't been ignoring it at all, I've read all three parts and its a good read.

I think we can agree that this progress in Latin America should've been done much much much sooner. This article seems to place most, if not all of the blame on Littlefield so we have nowhere to go but up as far as development in Latin America is concerned, but unfortunately like everything with the Pirates since 1993, patience is the word.

I do disagree with Gayo's reluctance to go after higher priced players such as Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo. He says he doesn't know how having money will change them. From an outsider's prospective, that doesn't make a lot of sense. If a kid can play, he can play, pay him.

These guys like Starling Marte are one thing, but nobody is labeling him a "prodigy" as the Sox players are. Ramirez and Viciedo have been signed to very affordable deals and are providing immediate return (Ramirez was 2nd in AL Rookie of the Year voting and Viciedo is expected to take over at 3B for the White Sox) These are the types of players we should be signing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:08 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
omgardd wrote:

What is with you guys and your haughty attitudes towards anything critical of the Pirates? Geesh.


I'm not haughty towards warranted criticism. Your whole post is as if two player signed at combined $40K and that have shown an ability to throw hard, and a willingness to work through the minors to achieve it, was done in some kind of vacuum while ignoring central America.
ZM


I think these articles have mentioned a few times that Pirates have been ignoring Central America for years. But hey, at least we'll be pioneers in the baseball factory that is India.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:20 am 
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omgardd wrote:

I think these articles have mentioned a few times that Pirates have been ignoring Central America for years. But hey, at least we'll be pioneers in the baseball factory that is India.


So where is the criticism of Huntington based? You stated in your previous post that most of the blame for Latin America rests with Littlefield. Since NH has arrived, the Latin America budget has tripled. They are building a new academy. How much did you want him to do in that area in one year? Did you think that they could go from a dirt lot to signing the best of the best down there this quickly? Really? I would say that they have made reasonable progress there in this time frame. If, a year or two after opening their new academy they still aren't competing for the best talent, then you have a legitimate beef.

Further, do you really, truly, honestly believe that spending $40k in India is what is holding us back from getting the Alexei Ramirez's of the world? I certainly don't view it as an either/or proposition. Its my belief that we should be investing more heavily in Latin America AND exploring underdeveloped markets. I'm not very hopeful for these kids from India either, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth a $40k gamble. No one knew for sure that Latin America would be a hotbed of talent, but someone had to make an initial investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:52 pm 
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BBF wrote:
omgardd wrote:

I think these articles have mentioned a few times that Pirates have been ignoring Central America for years. But hey, at least we'll be pioneers in the baseball factory that is India.


So where is the criticism of Huntington based? You stated in your previous post that most of the blame for Latin America rests with Littlefield. Since NH has arrived, the Latin America budget has tripled. They are building a new academy. How much did you want him to do in that area in one year? Did you think that they could go from a dirt lot to signing the best of the best down there this quickly? Really? I would say that they have made reasonable progress there in this time frame. If, a year or two after opening their new academy they still aren't competing for the best talent, then you have a legitimate beef.

Further, do you really, truly, honestly believe that spending $40k in India is what is holding us back from getting the Alexei Ramirez's of the world? I certainly don't view it as an either/or proposition. Its my belief that we should be investing more heavily in Latin America AND exploring underdeveloped markets. I'm not very hopeful for these kids from India either, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth a $40k gamble. No one knew for sure that Latin America would be a hotbed of talent, but someone had to make an initial investment.


Well put.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates sign Indian prospects
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:14 pm 
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There really was no criticism of Huntington, actually a criticism of the Pirates for letting Latin American scouting getting this bad in the first place. I am glad that measures are being taken to correct this and I do hope the new academy and upgrade in budget pay off and most importantly that Gayo rethinks his zany notion of being hesistant to throw big money at highly regarded players. Just because Littlefield and Gayo gave Yoslan Herrera a fat contract (after scouting him one time) and he got lazy doesn't mean he should be gun shy next time a can't miss comes along.

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