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 Post subject: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 pm 
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I have mixed feelings about the fact that we have 5 outfielders capable of starting.
Mccutchen
Marte
Snider
Sands
Tabata
you could even put in Presley as a decent 4th outfield type of player...
What is reasoning behind going out and acquiring guys like Snider and Sands if you have no where to play them? If Tabata is indeed only 24 years old you would still like to give him some playing time.
You can't play Sands at first because we already have 2 guys at first who have been proven starters in Jones and Sanchez...

Really didn't make sense for NH to go out and get all these low risk high reward guys if you have no where to play them. If they can't play they can't build up their value.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:59 am 
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Mixed feelings is right.

On one hand it's good to have options and 'insurance' should one or more guys play, but, as you point out, it creates a 'logjam' which prevents young[ish] players from getting reps and/or establishing value.

Best case scenario Sands gets his reps/establishes value in AAA as Tabata gets enough PT as a 4th OFer. Barring incident, Presley seems like the odd man out at this point.

Best worst case scenario Tabata and/or Presley get enough 'efficient' reps when one of the Marte/Snider duo goes down or flames out.

All things considered, it is appears better to have excess than in past years where Xavier Paul types were thrust into and became black holes in the starting lineup.

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Last edited by NSMaster56 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:01 am 
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In other words you are complaining that the Pirates have depth? You seem so concerned with playing time that you would rather only have one or two unproven, potential high reward players than have a variety in the case that inevitable factors happen, such as injuries, bench roles, platoon opinions, players struggling their way out of starting jobs, etc. Such as two years ago when we used a million catchers due to injuries and relied heavily on a little fringe AAA players to fill large roles due to a lack of internal talent.

But let's break it down - this is really only a discussion of 3 or 4 players: the RFers, no need to include a MVP candidate in with a list of low risk/high reward, unproven players, and Marte is projected to be the starting LFer. That leaves the other three (and potentially Presley) to compete for the RF job. Tabata is a huge question mark at this point. On paper there aren't a lot of positive signs, not only has his overall play dropped drastically since his rookie season, but he also isn't in the same shape (and thus isn't the excellent basestealer he was in the minors), but he has struggled to stay healthy for a variety of reasons. By all accounts I've heard he is supposedly 10-15lbs lighter this spring and is off to a hot start. The fact that he has no options left might render Presley useless if it came down to those two for the final spot. Snider is perhaps the safest bet to plug in and give you at least average results, but is can't produce with the power he's capable of he's likely not the answer. Sands has perhaps the most offensive potential of the bunch but he's as big of a question mark as any given how lack of MLB experience, and lack of success in that small sample size of a role.

As far as allotting playing time, that's the beauty of having depth and competition for jobs in Spring Training, etc. But I hardly see having such options as a bad thing. Obviously bench roles are a necessity as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:06 am 
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I view it as analogous to drafting a bunch of high-upside HS pitchers and paying them overslot. You hope that one or two of them pan out. Not a bad approach IMHO.

I think they'll open the season with Tabata and Snyder platooning in right. Sands is intriguing but he'll need to wait in AAA for an injury or failure to get his shot. Presley, I think, is a basically AAAA player.


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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:09 am 
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It just might be possible that Tabata is such a big question mark. Maybe all of these players were acquired to light a fire under Tabata's arse. 8-) If so, I hope it works!

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:13 am 
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It's early and this stage of ST is all fastballs but Tabata has started out pretty hot. The true test will be when Uncle Charlie starts to make some appearances in his direction...cautiously optimistic.... 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:28 am 
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We have no "logjam" until someone proves they can be an everyday (or at least platoon) MLB RF. Have we all looked back at how bad our Tabata/Presley/Snider OF production was last season?

The breakdown is simple to start 2012, Snider vs RHP, Tabata vs LHP, Presley as the LH bench bat/backup CF/LF or AAA, Sands at AAA to see what happens.

Depth is a good thing, not a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:03 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
I view it as analogous to drafting a bunch of high-upside HS pitchers and paying them overslot. You hope that one or two of them pan out. Not a bad approach IMHO.

I think they'll open the season with Tabata and Snyder platooning in right. Sands is intriguing but he'll need to wait in AAA for an injury or failure to get his shot. Presley, I think, is a basically AAAA player.



I agree with all of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 am 
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Tabata has apparently been impressive so far in spring training.

It is just dissapointing that Hanrahan was traded for a package with a guy like Sands. Sands has nowhere to play at the MLB level and you would like to see a 25 year old guy get playing time at the MLB level not AAA.

They should have held onto Hanrahan a bit longer maybe moved him in spring training or during the season when teams were willing to give up more for a proven bullpen piece.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:08 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Tabata has apparently been impressive so far in spring training.

It is just dissapointing that Hanrahan was traded for a package with a guy like Sands. Sands has nowhere to play at the MLB level and you would like to see a 25 year old guy get playing time at the MLB level not AAA.

They should have held onto Hanrahan a bit longer maybe moved him in spring training or during the season when teams were willing to give up more for a proven bullpen piece.



But there is the risk that Hanrahan is regressing in the season. He started looking like the Hanrahan of the Nationals late last season. He made me a nervous wreck every time he got the ball.

I have no problem with the trade. Sands has the opportunity to make the club or not. We'll see how it pans out.


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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:16 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Tabata has apparently been impressive so far in spring training.

It is just dissapointing that Hanrahan was traded for a package with a guy like Sands. Sands has nowhere to play at the MLB level and you would like to see a 25 year old guy get playing time at the MLB level not AAA.

They should have held onto Hanrahan a bit longer maybe moved him in spring training or during the season when teams were willing to give up more for a proven bullpen piece.



But there is the risk that Hanrahan is regressing in the season. He started looking like the Hanrahan of the Nationals late last season. He made me a nervous wreck every time he got the ball.

I have no problem with the trade. Sands has the opportunity to make the club or not. We'll see how it pans out.


I think he's referring to the Detroit situation. Smizik was championing this thought. It would have been very risky to hold Hanrahan until March with hope that Rondon would flop and you would only have one suitor.

The primary return isn't Sands anyway, it is Melancon who will be just as good for us for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:56 am 
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Hanrahan was shaky as hell and I'd think trading him for the ability to spend money elsewhere would have been worth it alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Outfield Logjam
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Well, Tabata was hot for the first two weeks of spring or so, and a few "this is a new Tabata" articles were published, but he's now down to having a pretty weak spring and hasn't been hitting at all of late. There is no frontrunner.

I have been saying all offseason that I'd like to see Snider gets as many ABs this year as possible (Marte as well, but that's a given) to see what the Pirates have with him and that we don't end up with another situation like we have now with a lot of unproven players lingering around with a curious potential impact, especially with options like Sands in the wings. Obviously the situation is much more nuanced than me posting that sentence, but I think you can get the gist of it. I still really like Tabata as a player but his recent trends leave me more than a little skeptical. I am certainly encouraged that he apparently came into camp 10-15lbs lighter considering as a prospect he became an excellent basestealer and was reduced to a not even speedy option last year. We'll see.


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