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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:09 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
There is very little room to negotiate with this new structure. I hope the kid falls. And it's mainly because it will make Scott Boras look like s#!#.

This is about ego and more ego. That's it.


I won't wish for any young man to fail... baseball is hard enough. But like others, I don't appreciate how this all went down. And I truly believe that Boras represents all that is wrong with professional baseball. Cannot blame any Pirate fan who would feel justified in their pleasure if Appel gets drafted lower than last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.


Compared to what Bourn was asking/looking for or expecting on the open market, it was a 'failure'.

---

Per Appel, put me in the 'I hope he slides in the draft' camp. HOWEVER, once he reaches the Bigs, may he find success.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:31 pm 
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I'd have a much different opinion of this young man if he displayed some semblance of humility. It is my perception that he expected to be drafted number 1 and, even then, Boeas was going to make the negotiations difficult. From all appearances, he dropped in the draft because of Appel and Boras' salary demands. He, like Eli Manning and John Elway, showed not an ounce of gratitude to be drafted high and to have the privilege of being offered millions to play a game he loves. Instead, he grouses about the process, claims that a higher being told him to wait it out for more money, his agent suggests that if the Pirates didn't have the audacity to pay others between $500K and $1M and gave it to Appel instead (yeah, that's a charitable Christian for you) then maybe he would've signed. He's a much older version of the kid who cried and took his bat and ball home when he didn't get his way. Never liked those kids when I played ball; never liked those kids when I coached ball and will never root for anyone I meet that demonstrates those characteristics.

I might think differently of him if he demonstrated some gratitude and admitted that he knows it's a risk but it's a life long dream of his to play in his home state and for the favorite team of his childhood. Or that it was his dream to lead Stanford to a CWS championship and that he wants to captain that ship.

So...if its tasteless to hope that this young man gets a heavy dose of reality, that his Senior year doesn't go as expected and that his signing bonus is less than the max offer submitted by the Pirates....so be it.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:37 pm 
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My issue lies with Scott Boras. This greedy, conceited man continues to thumb his nose at MLB...not because the system is broken, but because he wants more. He utilizes the young men he represents, particularly the amateur players, as pawns in his chess game. He has no real negative impact if one of his clients suffers...he has plenty of other clients raking in the money. Sadly it is the young player that suffers the ills.

I don't blame Mark Appel for what happened, nor do I wish him harm/injury...but I would like to see him fail to meet the expectations that would lead to a Top 10 selection. While the impact to Boras would not be great, hopefully it would prove a sign of caution for other young men that get influenced by this greedy slimeball. He is not out for you...he is out for your money.

For those (JC) that seem to think the Pirates could have done more to get him, I imagine you would be the first to berate them if they lost future draft selections as punishment for exceeding the slotted amount. Can't win for trying, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:01 am 
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Nutting&Russell wrote:
I don't blame the kid. If he chose to join the Pirates organization, he would be in the minors until one of two things happened.

1. Blew out his arm
2. Turned 28 years old.

He already is set in life, from what I hear, so not playing professional baseball wouln't be the end of the world for him.


You couldn't be more correct.
Sincerely,
Pedro Alvarez, Starling Marte, Neil Walker and Andrew McCutchen

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 am 
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So let's recap....God is a baseball fan, as outlined in Genesis 1:1-In the big inning God created the heaven and the earth. But then Scott Boras took a big bite out of the Appel and is now destined to have to work by the sweat of his brow, correct?? I think I Caucasians 11:35 said it best "Let him who has no sin throw out the first pitch."


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:10 am 
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bradf wrote:
So let's recap....God is a baseball fan, as outlined in Genesis 1:1-In the big inning God created the heaven and the earth. But then Scott Boras took a big bite out of the Appel and is now destined to have to work by the sweat of his brow, correct?? I think I Caucasians 11:35 said it best "Let him who has no sin throw out the first pitch."


This made me laugh. Hard. Kudos.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:21 am 
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^ that's awesome.

I agree with JC that wishing ill on him (like arm trouble ill) is wrong, but outside of that I'm with the majority here in that I'd like to see him go 10th. The Christian stuff was very off-putting. Jesus told you to go back to Stanford? But Jesus is cool with me working for like 60K a year? AM I NOT RIGHTEOUS ENOUGH FOR YOU, LORD?!?!?!?!?!??!?

On an aside, if Matt Harrington isn't a strong cautionary tale, who knows if anyone will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:47 am 
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I don't wish any physical injury (blown elbow, torn rotator cuff) but some mental anguish from a 5+ ERA would be fantastic. Remember, the farther he falls the better it is for someone else, someone that may appreciate the opportunity more than he has already shown.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:53 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

The new MLB Rule IV Draft slotting system affected his draft position in 2012, and his agent, Scott Boras, advised him not to sign for less than what he felt he was worth. The "max" the Pirates offered Appel was only what they had left in their budget after signing other players, and it was less than what Boras advised Appel he was worth. If the Pirates had signed a bunch of low-grade prospects with the rest of their top 10 picks, the remaining "max" may have been enough. Would it have been worth it to basically go cheap on pick nos. 2 through 10 so the PBC could sign Appel? I don't know. We'll find out over the next 3 to 7 years.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.

This strikes me as a bit unwarranted. I don't see anything from JC's posting in this thread as denigrating to the Pirates. You can put a leash on that attack dog.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:03 am 
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Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

The new MLB Rule IV Draft slotting system affected his draft position in 2012, and his agent, Scott Boras, advised him not to sign for less than what he felt he was worth. The "max" the Pirates offered Appel was only what they had left in their budget after signing other players, and it was less than what Boras advised Appel he was worth. If the Pirates had signed a bunch of low-grade prospects with the rest of their top 10 picks, the remaining "max" may have been enough. Would it have been worth it to basically go cheap on pick nos. 2 through 10 so the PBC could sign Appel? I don't know. We'll find out over the next 3 to 7 years.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.

This strikes me as a bit unwarranted. I don't see anything from JC's posting in this thread as denigrating to the Pirates. You can put a leash on that attack dog.


Ahh Mr. Wilton. Why don't you just let JC defend himself, which he did very well. Your post is the unwarranted one.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
My issue lies with Scott Boras. This greedy, conceited man continues to thumb his nose at MLB...not because the system is broken, but because he wants more. He utilizes the young men he represents, particularly the amateur players, as pawns in his chess game. He has no real negative impact if one of his clients suffers...he has plenty of other clients raking in the money. Sadly it is the young player that suffers the ills.


Isn't this the very essence of business though? Steve Jobs had hardware, Bill Gates had software, Scott Boras has baseball players.

How do we know Appel wasn't the one saying "I want all of the Pirates' money to be their 3rd or 4th best pitching prospect"? I don't think Boras is any different than any other highly successful businessman in America outside of the fact that he works in a different industry than most others.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:34 pm 
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I think the difference between real business and professional athletics is so different that great analogies are few and far between.

For example, there is no cap on what my company can pay someone that we want to sign out of college. Well, outside of the money we have being a cap.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:14 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I'd have a much different opinion of this young man if he displayed some semblance of humility. It is my perception that he expected to be drafted number 1 and, even then, Boeas was going to make the negotiations difficult. From all appearances, he dropped in the draft because of Appel and Boras' salary demands. He, like Eli Manning and John Elway, showed not an ounce of gratitude to be drafted high and to have the privilege of being offered millions to play a game he loves. Instead, he grouses about the process, claims that a higher being told him to wait it out for more money, his agent suggests that if the Pirates didn't have the audacity to pay others between $500K and $1M and gave it to Appel instead (yeah, that's a charitable Christian for you) then maybe he would've signed. He's a much older version of the kid who cried and took his bat and ball home when he didn't get his way. Never liked those kids when I played ball; never liked those kids when I coached ball and will never root for anyone I meet that demonstrates those characteristics.


You're acting like you know the kid. You don't. And while he certainly hit the genetic lottery, his work as a pitcher and athlete got him to where he is today. He's entitled to be proud of that and set his value where he believes it to be. He rolled the dice by turning down the Pirates' offer, but I'm not going to judge him for doing so. He made a common decision -- a LOT of players turned down offers after being drafted by the Pirates. Huntington failed to sign 4 of his top 10 picks in 2010 -- do you share a similar dislike of those four players, No. 9?

No. 9 wrote:
I might think differently of him if he demonstrated some gratitude and admitted that he knows it's a risk but it's a life long dream of his to play in his home state and for the favorite team of his childhood. Or that it was his dream to lead Stanford to a CWS championship and that he wants to captain that ship.


So if he uttered some meaningless platitudes, you'd eat 'em up and be fat and happy? OK.

No. 9 wrote:
So...if its tasteless to hope that this young man gets a heavy dose of reality, that his Senior year doesn't go as expected and that his signing bonus is less than the max offer submitted by the Pirates....so be it.


You are entitled to your opinion, sir. I find it tasteless, but there are quite a few people here who think like you. C'est la vie.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Ahh Mr. Wilton. Why don't you just let JC defend himself, which he did very well. Your post is the unwarranted one.


Considering how rarely Willton and I agree, I thought it was kinda nice.

Anyway, I hope we can all sing Kumbaya as the Pirates roll to a 90-win season in 2013...


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:17 pm 
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As a teacher, if I made 60k, I might be singing the praises................As one who knows someone who has Boras for an agent, you might have a different opinion if he was representing you.....JMHO.. 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:01 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I think the difference between real business and professional athletics is so different that great analogies are few and far between.

For example, there is no cap on what my company can pay someone that we want to sign out of college. Well, outside of the money we have being a cap.


Technically there isn't but if a company offers $55k and the other end wants $75k and refuses to take the job at anything less then the company will likely move on and find someone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:05 pm 
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My persona on this site keeps growing:
1. Reflexively pro-Huntington in my views.
2. Obsessive with Dejan Kovacevic's writings.
3. Tasteless for hoping that Mark Appel's signing bonus is less than what he turned down.

Why am I reminded of the days when Gary posted with great frequency at http://www.sportsonly.com/10514? :lol:

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:08 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
My persona on this site keeps growing:
1. Reflexively pro-Huntington in my views.
2. Obsessive with Dejan Kovacevic's writings.
3. Tasteless for hoping that Mark Appel's signing bonus is less than what he turned down.

Why am I reminded of the days when Gary posted with great frequency at http://www.sportsonly.com/10514? :lol:


To be fair, I rescinded No. 1.

No. 2 really got legs when you posted a non-baseball article written by DK.

And you have No. 3 wrong -- I think it's tasteless for you to wish that Mark Appel suffers "problems" during his senior season at Stanford. I don't wish "problems" on any kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:24 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
My persona on this site keeps growing:
1. Reflexively pro-Huntington in my views.
2. Obsessive with Dejan Kovacevic's writings.
3. Tasteless for hoping that Mark Appel's signing bonus is less than what he turned down.

Please add the foregoing qualities to your signature block post haste. Thanks.

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