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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:45 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
5 IP; 7 H and 3 BBs against Rice. 5 runs; 2 earned. WH/IP = 2.0

I'm soooooo hoping that his Senior year is mired with problems and he falls to a pick that is below where the Pirates selected him last year. If he loses money based on his decision to return to Stanford, that will make me smile. Not only because turning down max money from the Pirates affected their depth but it would result in Boras having egg on his face.

So, are we going to be treated to a game by game treatment of his senior season?

While I'm with JC in terms of not wishing him any ill will at all, Scott Boras on the other hand can go to that fiery death. Now, as for booing him when he appears against the Pirates, well, if I were in the stands, I'd be carrying on with the drunkards.


Last edited by val on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:48 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Blah blah blah. :roll:

With all due respect to Mr. Appel, I find it far more tasteless that Appel felt compelled to share that, after consulting with the Lord Jesus Christ, he decided that the Pirates didn't offer enough money to satisfy him and that he wanted to return to Stanford and wait for a better deal and more money. In my world, that's a weirdly warped perception of what Jesus Christ stood for and what Christianity is about.

Mind you, I didn't hope that he would die a fiery death, lose a limb in an odd industrial accident or even blow out his pitching shoulder. I merely wrote that I hoped that he would have a Senior season that leads to him being drafted below where the Pirates drafted him and that he ends up with less money.

If "tasteless" can now be defined as hoping that he is drafted below #8 and being "forced" to accept something less than $3.8M, then - by all means - call my comments "tasteless." And, for what its worth, I felt the same way about JD Drew and it is why I will never - ever - be a fan of either John Elway or Eli Manning. I'll never be a fan of the overly pampered athlete.


Aside from wishing any injury or sickness, I'm with you No.9, I hope he gets selected 30th and gets 1M in bonus.

As far as the Lord Jesus Christ stuff goes... I'm a born-again believer myself and any time I hear someone say that "God told me to" with reference to sports or money, I turn my head away in disgust. Frankly, if God wanted Appel to go back to Stanford, I'm sure he would have let him know before the draft, before he took a look at the "offers" of financial windfall. If God wanted him on another team, God would have made sure he was drafted by that team. Sure, I love when athletes reference Christ, but when it becomes a crutch for a decision like Appel made, I become very skeptical.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Blah blah blah. :roll:

With all due respect to Mr. Appel, I find it far more tasteless that Appel felt compelled to share that, after consulting with the Lord Jesus Christ, he decided that the Pirates didn't offer enough money to satisfy him and that he wanted to return to Stanford and wait for a better deal and more money. In my world, that's a weirdly warped perception of what Jesus Christ stood for and what Christianity is about.

Mind you, I didn't hope that he would die a fiery death, lose a limb in an odd industrial accident or even blow out his pitching shoulder. I merely wrote that I hoped that he would have a Senior season that leads to him being drafted below where the Pirates drafted him and that he ends up with less money.

If "tasteless" can now be defined as hoping that he is drafted below #8 and being "forced" to accept something less than $3.8M, then - by all means - call my comments "tasteless." And, for what its worth, I felt the same way about JD Drew and it is why I will never - ever - be a fan of either John Elway or Eli Manning. I'll never be a fan of the overly pampered athlete.


Aside from wishing any injury or sickness, I'm with you No.9, I hope he gets selected 30th and gets 1M in bonus.

As far as the Lord Jesus Christ stuff goes... I'm a born-again believer myself and any time I hear someone say that "God told me to" with reference to sports or money, I turn my head away in disgust. Frankly, if God wanted Appel to go back to Stanford, I'm sure he would have let him know before the draft, before he took a look at the "offers" of financial windfall. If God wanted him on another team, God would have made sure he was drafted by that team. Sure, I love when athletes reference Christ, but when it becomes a crutch for a decision like Appel made, I become very skeptical.

Quoted for truth. As one born-again to another...


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.


How about you calm down? Breathe a little. Step back from the keyboard.

My post had nothing to do with the Pittsburgh Pirates. This thread, and my responsive post, concern Mr. Mark Appel. That's it.

As to your questions, yes, I am a fan of the Pittsburgh Pirates. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. From 2004 to 2006 I owned season tickets to the Pirates. I criticize the management team of Neal Huntington and Frank Coonelly when I believe they deserve to be criticized; I laud them when I believe they deserve praise. That's called being a discerning, thinking fan. And while I agree with you that baseball's financial system tilts the playing field in favor of large market franchises, that does not mean that any team should go through a 20-year period like the Pirates have. And I have no interest in another "5-year plan"; I believe the next GM of the PBC should be able to succeed on a much smaller time frame given the increased resources and improved farm system.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:57 pm 
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For the record, I'm Catholic. God doesn't talk to me. Even in church. It's more of a one-sided relationship, and I'm fine with that. I'm confident that a wholly omniscient being has more important things to do than converse with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:44 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:06 pm 
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FYI he lost to Austin Kubitza, the Rice SP who we drafted and thought we were close to signing in 2010. Turns out he wanted $2 million and we came up short. That was the draft where NH failed to get 4 of his top 10 picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:08 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:09 pm 
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There is very little room to negotiate with this new structure. I hope the kid falls. And it's mainly because it will make Scott Boras look like s#!#.

This is about ego and more ego. That's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.

Four years and $48 million, actually. The fifth year is an option that vests if he reaches 550 plate appearances in the fourth year. I have my doubts that he'll be earning that option year.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:09 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
There is very little room to negotiate with this new structure. I hope the kid falls. And it's mainly because it will make Scott Boras look like s#!#.

This is about ego and more ego. That's it.


I won't wish for any young man to fail... baseball is hard enough. But like others, I don't appreciate how this all went down. And I truly believe that Boras represents all that is wrong with professional baseball. Cannot blame any Pirate fan who would feel justified in their pleasure if Appel gets drafted lower than last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.


Compared to what Bourn was asking/looking for or expecting on the open market, it was a 'failure'.

---

Per Appel, put me in the 'I hope he slides in the draft' camp. HOWEVER, once he reaches the Bigs, may he find success.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:31 pm 
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I'd have a much different opinion of this young man if he displayed some semblance of humility. It is my perception that he expected to be drafted number 1 and, even then, Boeas was going to make the negotiations difficult. From all appearances, he dropped in the draft because of Appel and Boras' salary demands. He, like Eli Manning and John Elway, showed not an ounce of gratitude to be drafted high and to have the privilege of being offered millions to play a game he loves. Instead, he grouses about the process, claims that a higher being told him to wait it out for more money, his agent suggests that if the Pirates didn't have the audacity to pay others between $500K and $1M and gave it to Appel instead (yeah, that's a charitable Christian for you) then maybe he would've signed. He's a much older version of the kid who cried and took his bat and ball home when he didn't get his way. Never liked those kids when I played ball; never liked those kids when I coached ball and will never root for anyone I meet that demonstrates those characteristics.

I might think differently of him if he demonstrated some gratitude and admitted that he knows it's a risk but it's a life long dream of his to play in his home state and for the favorite team of his childhood. Or that it was his dream to lead Stanford to a CWS championship and that he wants to captain that ship.

So...if its tasteless to hope that this young man gets a heavy dose of reality, that his Senior year doesn't go as expected and that his signing bonus is less than the max offer submitted by the Pirates....so be it.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:37 pm 
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My issue lies with Scott Boras. This greedy, conceited man continues to thumb his nose at MLB...not because the system is broken, but because he wants more. He utilizes the young men he represents, particularly the amateur players, as pawns in his chess game. He has no real negative impact if one of his clients suffers...he has plenty of other clients raking in the money. Sadly it is the young player that suffers the ills.

I don't blame Mark Appel for what happened, nor do I wish him harm/injury...but I would like to see him fail to meet the expectations that would lead to a Top 10 selection. While the impact to Boras would not be great, hopefully it would prove a sign of caution for other young men that get influenced by this greedy slimeball. He is not out for you...he is out for your money.

For those (JC) that seem to think the Pirates could have done more to get him, I imagine you would be the first to berate them if they lost future draft selections as punishment for exceeding the slotted amount. Can't win for trying, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:01 am 
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Nutting&Russell wrote:
I don't blame the kid. If he chose to join the Pirates organization, he would be in the minors until one of two things happened.

1. Blew out his arm
2. Turned 28 years old.

He already is set in life, from what I hear, so not playing professional baseball wouln't be the end of the world for him.


You couldn't be more correct.
Sincerely,
Pedro Alvarez, Starling Marte, Neil Walker and Andrew McCutchen

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 am 
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So let's recap....God is a baseball fan, as outlined in Genesis 1:1-In the big inning God created the heaven and the earth. But then Scott Boras took a big bite out of the Appel and is now destined to have to work by the sweat of his brow, correct?? I think I Caucasians 11:35 said it best "Let him who has no sin throw out the first pitch."


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:10 am 
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bradf wrote:
So let's recap....God is a baseball fan, as outlined in Genesis 1:1-In the big inning God created the heaven and the earth. But then Scott Boras took a big bite out of the Appel and is now destined to have to work by the sweat of his brow, correct?? I think I Caucasians 11:35 said it best "Let him who has no sin throw out the first pitch."


This made me laugh. Hard. Kudos.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:21 am 
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^ that's awesome.

I agree with JC that wishing ill on him (like arm trouble ill) is wrong, but outside of that I'm with the majority here in that I'd like to see him go 10th. The Christian stuff was very off-putting. Jesus told you to go back to Stanford? But Jesus is cool with me working for like 60K a year? AM I NOT RIGHTEOUS ENOUGH FOR YOU, LORD?!?!?!?!?!??!?

On an aside, if Matt Harrington isn't a strong cautionary tale, who knows if anyone will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:47 am 
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I don't wish any physical injury (blown elbow, torn rotator cuff) but some mental anguish from a 5+ ERA would be fantastic. Remember, the farther he falls the better it is for someone else, someone that may appreciate the opportunity more than he has already shown.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:53 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

The new MLB Rule IV Draft slotting system affected his draft position in 2012, and his agent, Scott Boras, advised him not to sign for less than what he felt he was worth. The "max" the Pirates offered Appel was only what they had left in their budget after signing other players, and it was less than what Boras advised Appel he was worth. If the Pirates had signed a bunch of low-grade prospects with the rest of their top 10 picks, the remaining "max" may have been enough. Would it have been worth it to basically go cheap on pick nos. 2 through 10 so the PBC could sign Appel? I don't know. We'll find out over the next 3 to 7 years.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.

This strikes me as a bit unwarranted. I don't see anything from JC's posting in this thread as denigrating to the Pirates. You can put a leash on that attack dog.

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