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 Post subject: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:14 pm 
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5 IP; 7 H and 3 BBs against Rice. 5 runs; 2 earned. WH/IP = 2.0

I'm soooooo hoping that his Senior year is mired with problems and he falls to a pick that is below where the Pirates selected him last year. If he loses money based on his decision to return to Stanford, that will make me smile. Not only because turning down max money from the Pirates affected their depth but it would result in Boras having egg on his face.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:16 pm 
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I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

The new MLB Rule IV Draft slotting system affected his draft position in 2012, and his agent, Scott Boras, advised him not to sign for less than what he felt he was worth. The "max" the Pirates offered Appel was only what they had left in their budget after signing other players, and it was less than what Boras advised Appel he was worth. If the Pirates had signed a bunch of low-grade prospects with the rest of their top 10 picks, the remaining "max" may have been enough. Would it have been worth it to basically go cheap on pick nos. 2 through 10 so the PBC could sign Appel? I don't know. We'll find out over the next 3 to 7 years.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Tim Williams has a nice take on the situation.

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/02 ... ision.html

I don’t see a reason why Pirates fans should hold a grudge against Appel for that decision. They’ve got talented pitchers, so they weren’t relying on him. They also get a compensation pick this year, so they didn’t miss out on adding a first round talent. I say all of this on the same week that a San Diego Padres blog became infamous for celebrating the Karsten Whitson injury. That reminded me of some of the horrible reactions to Appel right after the signing deadline, and Appel getting a question earlier this year about Pirates fans booing him. That’s probably going to be inevitable throughout his career. But I don’t think it should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Count me on the side of hoping he falls in the draft.

The Pirates offered what they could, literally, and he should have taken it. What he or Boras felt he was worth is beside the point; he was not a free agent.

The odds of his gamble paying off in the long run are slim in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
The Pirates offered what they could, literally, and he should have taken it. What he or Boras felt he was worth is beside the point; he was not a free agent.


That's your view of a player's negotiation strategy when drafted by an MLB team? Just take what the team offers? I'm guessing you're not going to be studying for your agent certification exam any time soon...


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:48 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Blah blah blah. :roll:

With all due respect to Mr. Appel, I find it far more tasteless that Appel felt compelled to share that, after consulting with the Lord Jesus Christ, he decided that the Pirates didn't offer enough money to satisfy him and that he wanted to return to Stanford and wait for a better deal and more money. In my world, that's a weirdly warped perception of what Jesus Christ stood for and what Christianity is about.

Mind you, I didn't hope that he would die a fiery death, lose a limb in an odd industrial accident or even blow out his pitching shoulder. I merely wrote that I hoped that he would have a Senior season that leads to him being drafted below where the Pirates drafted him and that he ends up with less money.

If "tasteless" can now be defined as hoping that he is drafted below #8 and being "forced" to accept something less than $3.8M, then - by all means - call my comments "tasteless." And, for what its worth, I felt the same way about JD Drew and it is why I will never - ever - be a fan of either John Elway or Eli Manning. I'll never be a fan of the overly pampered athlete.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:17 pm 
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No. 9, you wrote, and I quote: "I'm soooooo hoping that his Senior year is mired with problems . . . ."

That particular sentence could be interpreted to mean wishing injury or any other "problem" on Appel during his senior season. Personally, I find that tasteless. And whether Appel decided not to sign with the Pirates due to a higher asking price or prayer with his family doesn't matter to me at all. I don't know the kid, and neither do you. For all you and I know, he's a saintly Christian who gives back to his community and loves dogs.

I don't wish "problems" on any athlete. I just hope the teams I root for prevail over other athletes and teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:24 pm 
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I don't blame the kid. If he chose to join the Pirates organization, he would be in the minors until one of two things happened.

1. Blew out his arm
2. Turned 28 years old.

He already is set in life, from what I hear, so not playing professional baseball wouln't be the end of the world for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:31 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The Pirates offered what they could, literally, and he should have taken it. What he or Boras felt he was worth is beside the point; he was not a free agent.


That's your view of a player's negotiation strategy when drafted by an MLB team? Just take what the team offers? I'm guessing you're not going to be studying for your agent certification exam any time soon...


In this case, when hard slotting was in effect and the Pirates offered all they could, yes absolutely I think he should have taken what they offered.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:38 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

The new MLB Rule IV Draft slotting system affected his draft position in 2012, and his agent, Scott Boras, advised him not to sign for less than what he felt he was worth. The "max" the Pirates offered Appel was only what they had left in their budget after signing other players, and it was less than what Boras advised Appel he was worth. If the Pirates had signed a bunch of low-grade prospects with the rest of their top 10 picks, the remaining "max" may have been enough. Would it have been worth it to basically go cheap on pick nos. 2 through 10 so the PBC could sign Appel? I don't know. We'll find out over the next 3 to 7 years.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:45 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
5 IP; 7 H and 3 BBs against Rice. 5 runs; 2 earned. WH/IP = 2.0

I'm soooooo hoping that his Senior year is mired with problems and he falls to a pick that is below where the Pirates selected him last year. If he loses money based on his decision to return to Stanford, that will make me smile. Not only because turning down max money from the Pirates affected their depth but it would result in Boras having egg on his face.

So, are we going to be treated to a game by game treatment of his senior season?

While I'm with JC in terms of not wishing him any ill will at all, Scott Boras on the other hand can go to that fiery death. Now, as for booing him when he appears against the Pirates, well, if I were in the stands, I'd be carrying on with the drunkards.


Last edited by val on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:48 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Blah blah blah. :roll:

With all due respect to Mr. Appel, I find it far more tasteless that Appel felt compelled to share that, after consulting with the Lord Jesus Christ, he decided that the Pirates didn't offer enough money to satisfy him and that he wanted to return to Stanford and wait for a better deal and more money. In my world, that's a weirdly warped perception of what Jesus Christ stood for and what Christianity is about.

Mind you, I didn't hope that he would die a fiery death, lose a limb in an odd industrial accident or even blow out his pitching shoulder. I merely wrote that I hoped that he would have a Senior season that leads to him being drafted below where the Pirates drafted him and that he ends up with less money.

If "tasteless" can now be defined as hoping that he is drafted below #8 and being "forced" to accept something less than $3.8M, then - by all means - call my comments "tasteless." And, for what its worth, I felt the same way about JD Drew and it is why I will never - ever - be a fan of either John Elway or Eli Manning. I'll never be a fan of the overly pampered athlete.


Aside from wishing any injury or sickness, I'm with you No.9, I hope he gets selected 30th and gets 1M in bonus.

As far as the Lord Jesus Christ stuff goes... I'm a born-again believer myself and any time I hear someone say that "God told me to" with reference to sports or money, I turn my head away in disgust. Frankly, if God wanted Appel to go back to Stanford, I'm sure he would have let him know before the draft, before he took a look at the "offers" of financial windfall. If God wanted him on another team, God would have made sure he was drafted by that team. Sure, I love when athletes reference Christ, but when it becomes a crutch for a decision like Appel made, I become very skeptical.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I would never wish ill of a kid just because he turned down an offer from the Pirates. That's not right.

In any case, it's tasteless to wish ill of a kid based on his decision not to sign with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope he has a great career (but loses to the Pirates a lot if he ends up pitching in the National League).


Blah blah blah. :roll:

With all due respect to Mr. Appel, I find it far more tasteless that Appel felt compelled to share that, after consulting with the Lord Jesus Christ, he decided that the Pirates didn't offer enough money to satisfy him and that he wanted to return to Stanford and wait for a better deal and more money. In my world, that's a weirdly warped perception of what Jesus Christ stood for and what Christianity is about.

Mind you, I didn't hope that he would die a fiery death, lose a limb in an odd industrial accident or even blow out his pitching shoulder. I merely wrote that I hoped that he would have a Senior season that leads to him being drafted below where the Pirates drafted him and that he ends up with less money.

If "tasteless" can now be defined as hoping that he is drafted below #8 and being "forced" to accept something less than $3.8M, then - by all means - call my comments "tasteless." And, for what its worth, I felt the same way about JD Drew and it is why I will never - ever - be a fan of either John Elway or Eli Manning. I'll never be a fan of the overly pampered athlete.


Aside from wishing any injury or sickness, I'm with you No.9, I hope he gets selected 30th and gets 1M in bonus.

As far as the Lord Jesus Christ stuff goes... I'm a born-again believer myself and any time I hear someone say that "God told me to" with reference to sports or money, I turn my head away in disgust. Frankly, if God wanted Appel to go back to Stanford, I'm sure he would have let him know before the draft, before he took a look at the "offers" of financial windfall. If God wanted him on another team, God would have made sure he was drafted by that team. Sure, I love when athletes reference Christ, but when it becomes a crutch for a decision like Appel made, I become very skeptical.

Quoted for truth. As one born-again to another...


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Are you even a fan of the Pirates? Every thread on this board has you in one way or another denegrating the Pirates, the staff, or a poster with your anti-Pirate banter. Are the Pirates the best organization in baseball? Absolutely not. Are they the worst? no on that account as well. What I get upset about is that nothing the Pirates can do will ever be enough for the yinzer crowd. They hung around in contention most of last season, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Would I like to see them win the WS, sure, but I'm realistic, baseball is broken, has been for a while now. With teams in the league like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc. who have far more resources than the Pirates will ever have, going to the WS as a small market team is very very difficult. Would I like our scouts to hit on more talent in the draft, yes! Would I like the Pirates to develop those young men better through the system, yes again. Hiring another GM so that he can bring his OWN philosophy and set us on yet another 5yr plan is not the answer right now(but it soon may be). Finding scouts who are better and putting together better player development programs is where we must excel as a team, cue the Tampa Bay Rays.


How about you calm down? Breathe a little. Step back from the keyboard.

My post had nothing to do with the Pittsburgh Pirates. This thread, and my responsive post, concern Mr. Mark Appel. That's it.

As to your questions, yes, I am a fan of the Pittsburgh Pirates. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. From 2004 to 2006 I owned season tickets to the Pirates. I criticize the management team of Neal Huntington and Frank Coonelly when I believe they deserve to be criticized; I laud them when I believe they deserve praise. That's called being a discerning, thinking fan. And while I agree with you that baseball's financial system tilts the playing field in favor of large market franchises, that does not mean that any team should go through a 20-year period like the Pirates have. And I have no interest in another "5-year plan"; I believe the next GM of the PBC should be able to succeed on a much smaller time frame given the increased resources and improved farm system.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:57 pm 
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For the record, I'm Catholic. God doesn't talk to me. Even in church. It's more of a one-sided relationship, and I'm fine with that. I'm confident that a wholly omniscient being has more important things to do than converse with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:44 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:06 pm 
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FYI he lost to Austin Kubitza, the Rice SP who we drafted and thought we were close to signing in 2010. Turns out he wanted $2 million and we came up short. That was the draft where NH failed to get 4 of his top 10 picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:08 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:09 pm 
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There is very little room to negotiate with this new structure. I hope the kid falls. And it's mainly because it will make Scott Boras look like s#!#.

This is about ego and more ego. That's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Appel - Game #1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
...it would result in Boras having egg on his face.


Boras already has egg on his face for the Michael Bourn FA fiasco.


Fiasco? He got 5 years and $60 million for a speed based guy entering his 30's.

The recent perception that Boras somehow is bad at his job is grossly wrong.

Four years and $48 million, actually. The fifth year is an option that vests if he reaches 550 plate appearances in the fourth year. I have my doubts that he'll be earning that option year.

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