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 Post subject: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Don't get too excited. Same old stuff.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/11118250

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Love this line:

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Objectively, they have sucked. Subjectively, they have sucked.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:14 pm 
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I liked his comment on the Bay-Nady-Marte Trades....

Quote:
The Pirates didn't net any future superstars in the deals that exiled Xavier Nady, Damaso Marte and Jason Bay. Still, they added enough arms and bodies (Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche, Ross Ohlendorf) to erase the need to re-up Jason Michaels and Doug Mientkiewicz (who, against all odds, enjoyed a fine 2008).


I guess he forgot about Tabata...but I'm sure he was quick to jump on the bandwagon of how could the Yankees let someone like Karstens go after that shutout game in Az, in his 2nd start as a Pirate...

He writes for CBSsports, who cares...

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:56 am 
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Interesting read. I wonder if it would be such a bad idea after all to trade McLouth now or if that's something thats even a consideration in the front office. They're surely going to get nothing right now for Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Let's trade them all for prospects. Then, whenever they get good, we can trade them for more prospects.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:56 pm 
He makes some good points and some bad points. This bothered me

"Still, they added enough arms and bodies (Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche, Ross Ohlendorf) to erase the need to re-up Jason Michaels and Doug Mientkiew"

It bothers me that the team won't attempt to resign Mientky.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
He makes some good points and some bad points. This bothered me

"Still, they added enough arms and bodies (Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche, Ross Ohlendorf) to erase the need to re-up Jason Michaels and Doug Mientkiew"

It bothers me that the team won't attempt to resign Mientky.

Why should we? He's a bench player looking for greener pastures and a higher paycheck. Given the state of the Pirates, I see no reason to throw that kind of money at such a fungible asset.

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:35 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
He makes some good points and some bad points. This bothered me

"Still, they added enough arms and bodies (Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche, Ross Ohlendorf) to erase the need to re-up Jason Michaels and Doug Mientkiew"

It bothers me that the team won't attempt to resign Mientky.

Why should we? He's a bench player looking for greener pastures and a higher paycheck. Given the state of the Pirates, I see no reason to throw that kind of money at such a fungible asset.


Because he'd help us win games.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
He makes some good points and some bad points. This bothered me

"Still, they added enough arms and bodies (Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche, Ross Ohlendorf) to erase the need to re-up Jason Michaels and Doug Mientkiew"

It bothers me that the team won't attempt to resign Mientky.

Why should we? He's a bench player looking for greener pastures and a higher paycheck. Given the state of the Pirates, I see no reason to throw that kind of money at such a fungible asset.


Because he'd help us win games.

How many? More importantly, how many more compared to the next best option?

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:06 pm 
Willton wrote:
How many? More importantly, how many more compared to the next best option?


Not sure exactly how many, but I believe a team should try to win as many games as possible every year. It's my belief that attempting to resigning a guy (who expressed some interest in coming back at one time) that had a good year is a way to do that.

This is a fundamental difference in beliefs that you and I have about baseball. It's not worth us getting into it because neither of us is going to convince the other of our views.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
How many? More importantly, how many more compared to the next best option?


Not sure exactly how many, but I believe a team should try to win as many games as possible every year. It's my belief that attempting to resigning a guy (who expressed some interest in coming back at one time) that had a good year is a way to do that.

Well, I also believe that a team should try to win as many games as possible every year, but that they should do so in the most efficient manner possible. Resigning a 34-year old bench player who had a merely decent season last year is NOT the way to do that. Doing so would be a smaller-scale equivalent of the Pirates' signing of Jeromy Burnitz in 2006. If we need a bench player that can hit a little and play the corners, there are better, cheaper options than Minky.

Elmer wrote:
This is a fundamental difference in beliefs that you and I have about baseball. It's not worth us getting into it because neither of us is going to convince the other of our views.

This only tells me that you're not willing to listen to one's reasoned opinions that are contrary to yours. As a famous person (I forget who) once said, "one who has been shown to be honestly mistaken will either stop being mistaken or cease being honest."

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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:14 am 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
How many? More importantly, how many more compared to the next best option?


Not sure exactly how many, but I believe a team should try to win as many games as possible every year. It's my belief that attempting to resigning a guy (who expressed some interest in coming back at one time) that had a good year is a way to do that.

Well, I also believe that a team should try to win as many games as possible every year, but that they should do so in the most efficient manner possible. Resigning a 34-year old bench player who had a merely decent season last year is NOT the way to do that. Doing so would be a smaller-scale equivalent of the Pirates' signing of Jeromy Burnitz in 2006. If we need a bench player that can hit a little and play the corners, there are better, cheaper options than Minky.

Elmer wrote:
This is a fundamental difference in beliefs that you and I have about baseball. It's not worth us getting into it because neither of us is going to convince the other of our views.

This only tells me that you're not willing to listen to one's reasoned opinions that are contrary to yours. As a famous person (I forget who) once said, "one who has been shown to be honestly mistaken will either stop being mistaken or cease being honest."



And your behavior through the years only tells me that you're not willing to listen to one's reasoned opinions that are contrary to yours. Baseball discussing between you and I simply doesn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:21 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
And your behavior through the years only tells me that you're not willing to listen to one's reasoned opinions that are contrary to yours.

Not true. No. 9, Bucfan, and Bucco Boy have offered many reasoned posts that are contrary to mine. The difference between theirs and yours is that they put some thought behind their posts. They explain themselves; you don't seem to do so.

Elmer wrote:
Baseball discussing between you and I simply doesn't work.

I think that's mainly because you won't let it work. But if that's the way you feel, you don't have to respond to me. However, that will not keep me from responding to you.

By the way, it's "between you and me," not "between you and I".

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~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: A national story during the Hot Stove?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:58 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
And your behavior through the years only tells me that you're not willing to listen to one's reasoned opinions that are contrary to yours.

Not true. No. 9, Bucfan, and Bucco Boy have offered many reasoned posts that are contrary to mine. The difference between theirs and yours is that they put some thought behind their posts. They explain themselves; you don't seem to do so.

Elmer wrote:
Baseball discussing between you and I simply doesn't work.

I think that's mainly because you won't let it work. But if that's the way you feel, you don't have to respond to me. However, that will not keep me from responding to you.

By the way, it's "between you and me," not "between you and I".


Give it up Willton. I'm not having this debate with you again. I don't come here to talk baseball with you. Talking baseball with you is 0% fun. I said good day.


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