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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:47 pm 
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It is my understanding that this exercise was supervised by a company run be former Navy Seals. I would consider that reliable supervision. I have also stated that I don't have any problem with the exercise. To paint No. 9 as the only poster without an issue with the exercise is not valid..... 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
It is my understanding that this exercise was supervised by a company run be former Navy Seals. I would consider that reliable supervision. I have also stated that I don't have any problem with the exercise. To paint No. 9 as the only poster without an issue with the exercise is not valid..... 8-) 8-)


Thanks for letting me know your stance. If "Hell Week" was run by a company with former Navy SEALs, then they're the most incompetent Navy SEALs around. Conducting sliding drills with poor light on a bad field is a great way to get a prospect injured.


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:25 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
If "Hell Week" was run by a company with former Navy SEALs, then they're the most incompetent Navy SEALs around. Conducting sliding drills with poor light on a bad field is a great way to get a prospect injured.


Navy SEALs don't care about or are experts on baseball.

The most 'incompetent' team of SEALs could probably still lead a successful infiltration and coup/overthrow of a third world nation.

So while your complaint may very well be valid, it really only is such viewed from the eyes of a civilian.

To a SEAL (or any Special Forces Soldier), 'ideal conditions' does not apply and 'danger' is as common as breathing.

If anything, they probably intended for such 'unsafe' conditions (whether or not it is true, who knows?). If that were the case, the failure would be whoever allowed the training in the first place.

Asking SEALs to 'train' anyone is like handing your car keys to Evel Knievel; prepare for damage control.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:58 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If "Hell Week" was run by a company with former Navy SEALs, then they're the most incompetent Navy SEALs around. Conducting sliding drills with poor light on a bad field is a great way to get a prospect injured.


Navy SEALs don't care about or are experts on baseball.

The most 'incompetent' team of SEALs could probably still lead a successful infiltration and coup/overthrow of a third world nation.

So while your complaint may very well be valid, it really only is such viewed from the eyes of a civilian.

To a SEAL (or any Special Forces Soldier), 'ideal conditions' does not apply and 'danger' is as common as breathing.

If anything, they probably intended for such 'unsafe' conditions (whether or not it is true, who knows?). If that were the case, the failure would be whoever allowed the training in the first place.

Asking SEALs to 'train' anyone is like handing your car keys to Evel Knievel; prepare for damage control.

I've been against this since the story broke. What you say here is sort of why(and I don't pretend to have any knowledge whatsoever about SEAL training).
I want Navy SEALS to go through this training because of what they signed up to do. It's what sets them apart(among other things I'm sure). I want my baseball prospects to go through baseball training...it's what they signed up for. It's why they became ball players. I don't care if it was for 3 days, a week, a month...whatever. Can mental training help them(or anyone for that fact) prepare for their job as a ballplayer? Sure. I'll give them that. Even conceding that, I'm sure there are plenty of baseball related activities that can work on mental toughness too. If I was the guy that was paying all of these signing bonuses and such, I wouldn't want any of these guys put in an unnecessary, dangerous situation EVER. The whole thing doesn't make sense. Again, they are ballplayers, not Navy SEALS. And for the record that would be my opinion if every team in the league was doing it.

It seems to me Kyle Stark has this macho, bust your balls, type of make up. It has accomplished nothing for the organization. He, along with Broadway, seem to have very little baseball acumen. Poor player development and just a general lack of production should have got these guys fired...the Hoka Hey crap to me was just the final straw, and a picture of what these guys are all about.


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:44 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
http://www.baseballnews.com/features/stories/navysealtraining.htm


So you're on board with it because an amateur women's softball team did it? Really?

I stand by my points about why such "teamwork" training is potentially useful in true "team" sports, but not so much in baseball. I also stand by my point that the derivative military-style training the Pirates carried out during "Hell Week," without Navy SEAL supervision, was risky and dumb.

There was no drill in all that training that could measure up to the crap I had to do every day for my football coach from ages 9-12.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:45 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
It is my understanding that this exercise was supervised by a company run be former Navy Seals. I would consider that reliable supervision. I have also stated that I don't have any problem with the exercise. To paint No. 9 as the only poster without an issue with the exercise is not valid..... 8-) 8-)


Thanks for letting me know your stance. If "Hell Week" was run by a company with former Navy SEALs, then they're the most incompetent Navy SEALs around. Conducting sliding drills with poor light on a bad field is a great way to get a prospect injured.

Bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:03 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
http://www.baseballnews.com/features/stories/navysealtraining.htm


So you're on board with it because an amateur women's softball team did it? Really?

I stand by my points about why such "teamwork" training is potentially useful in true "team" sports, but not so much in baseball. I also stand by my point that the derivative military-style training the Pirates carried out during "Hell Week," without Navy SEAL supervision, was risky and dumb.

There was no drill in all that training that could measure up to the crap I had to do every day for my football coach from ages 9-12.


Sounds like someone's views have been skewed by some childhood trauma...


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:12 am 
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Hey. I gave you some leeway on the sliding drills. That doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong about how silly the whole Hoka Hey hate is.

In fact, when I posted this, I thought I made it clear that I thought the whole line of criticism was suspect.

Yes, it has some danger.

Yes, the team aspect is not the same as hockey.

Yes, there's probably some "head shakedness" to the whole concept.

HOWEVER. It's not a big deal. Organizations do it. It is what it is. If you feel it's necessary to criticize it, cool. I get that.

That said, I think it's a tiny little piece of a bigger organizational dogma. Likely not a good one. Criticize the lead off and base running skills. Criticize our ability to hold a runner at first.

Don't criticize a concept that wants to make us winners. Yes, funda"mentals" play into that. But "mentals" do too.

EDIT: In other words: We need both from management: Fundamentals AND winning.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:22 am 
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As Dan noted earlier in this thread, my son was a varsity high school wreslter for three years and a varsity pitcher for two. His wrestling workouts were serious - carry a teammate up a hill covering about 1/2 mile, running 4-5 miles at a go, serious stretching, aerobic, etc.

When he finished wrestling season, and started full-time with baseball practice, he would joke how easy the training was. Run 2 miles? Wow ... he had been CARRYING a teammate up a hill the week prior.

Jerry Rice had a famous offseason workout regimen that many players attended. No supervision, apart from Jerry Rice and his demanding routine. The workouts were so demanding that most players reported puking from the demands ... and no team, to my knowledge, encouraged players to avoid these workouts. Quite the contrary.

I suspect that baseball players generally just don't work out to the extent that football and hockey players or wrestlers do. From what I saw of the "Seal training," it really was not much.

Running on the beach? Carrying a 50 lb. pole? Uhhh, okay. So what? It seems to me that the demands of these workouts have been overstated, a point I believe would be confirmed by anybody who played high school football, participated in wrestling, did serious distance running, played hockey, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:49 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Sounds like someone's views have been skewed by some childhood trauma...

It wasn't traumatic. It was hard work, very hard. Like this terrible, horrible rolling of truck tires.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:29 am 
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Rochester wrote:
Yes, there's probably some "head shakedness" to the whole concept.

HOWEVER. It's not a big deal. Organizations do it. It is what it is.


Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:08 am 
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Maybe Jose Tabata should have attended, he has been suspect mentally during adversities as well as out of shape leading to hamstring issues.

This topic has been beat to death, its really very simple:

1. A writer thought it great "news" to "out" the team on supposed shakey training processes, he was wrong. Matter-of-fact he was a bit vindictive in his attempt to smear the front office. The fact will always remain the same, he is a writer, subsequently a fan like the rest of us (with more access), the team employs professional baseball people to make decisions based on numbers, facts, experience, etc. I'm sorry but I'm going to side with the Pirates because what I've seen over the last 4 years is steady improvement in all phases of the organization. Though they may not be marked improvement, it has been steady and very encouraging.

2. The majority of people that are "outraged" by the whole "SEAL" training I would assume are non-military members. While there is certainly nothing wrong with not choosing the military as a career it shows a lack of familiarity or lack of understanding of importance to certain training scenerios. I could write you a full article outlining the benefits of military style training and how it could enhance job performance in almost any career field, but non-military types wouldn't really understand it and would argue heavily against it. But again, that is perfectly ok. What frustrates me is that I've watched this topic take on a life of its own with such orchestrated "public outrage" that it may lead to the PBC abandoning a type of training that I enthusiatically endorse, all because of the writing of a vindictive writer with a clear agenda.


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 Post subject: Re: The SEAL Training
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:38 pm 
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PF13....i agree with you....however i have one bone to pick...

Piratefan13 wrote:
out of shape leading to hamstring issues.


Hamstrings are more a physiological thing and although Tabata seems thicker (frankly due to maturing and body type), I don't really think he was out of shape nor believe the hamstring woes were caused by such. This is a make or break year for him IMHO. It will be curious to see how it all plays out.... 8-)


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