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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
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Seriously, people. We traded a guy who can't hit for a lottery ticket in Gomez. Where's the harm?


The harm is that we didn't get Felix Hernandez for Latimore, NH is a terrible GM. :roll:

Yea...that's exactly what I was saying. Good pick up.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Willton wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Gomez is out of options so he would need to be DFA'd to go to AAA. That is almost certainly what will happen. I'm not sure why they felt the need to do this unless NH remembers liking him when they signed him forever ago. Cleveland was going to DFA him anyway. NH certainly has a thing for sinkerballers now, it seems to have replaced his former love of high 90's guys with no control.

These are the ridiculous waste moves I just don't get, and one of many reasons I think NH and the gang should've been gone...The pitching this season may be a disaster.

Oh, please, what is so ridiculous about this move? What did we give up in Latimore? Was Latimore really worth something more than what Gomez is now?

This reminds me of when the Pirates traded Todd Redmond for Tyler Yates in 2008, and it turned into a huge kerfuffle on this board and elsewhere for no good reason. Yeah, Yates did not pitch well for the Pirates, but who was he blocking? And what the heck has Redmond done since being traded? Mastered the art of pitching in AAA?

Seriously, people. We traded a guy who can't hit for a lottery ticket in Gomez. Where's the harm?

No harm. But this GM consistently makes a bunch of these moves. This guy isn't a lottery ticket, he's a bum. If NH would spend as much time trying to make some creative trades for legitimate players maybe he'd have something.

For the record, AJ Burnett was a lottery ticket. Melancon is a lottery ticket. They had some success prior to acquisition. Gemini Gomez or whatever his name is, is awful. It's a clown move...and there are too many of these and not enough legit moves being made.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:03 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
No harm. But this GM consistently makes a bunch of these moves. This guy isn't a lottery ticket, he's a bum. If NH would spend as much time trying to make some creative trades for legitimate players maybe he'd have something.

For the record, AJ Burnett was a lottery ticket. Melancon is a lottery ticket. They had some success prior to acquisition. Gemini Gomez or whatever his name is, is awful. It's a clown move...and there are too many of these and not enough legit moves being made.

"Clown move"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Only clowns attempt to get emergency pitching depth? Every team makes moves like this. But if you think the Pirates make too many of them, please feel free to list the ones that they have made this off season.

As Charlie indicates at Bucs Dugout, "[t]his move may reflect the Pirates' need to acquire more depth in the rotation now that the Francisco Liriano deal is in limbo and Rick VandenHurk has departed for Korea, but unless Gomez dramatically improves, the Pirates would have to be in pretty big trouble to consider starting him." And that's what Gomez is: disaster insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
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Seriously, people. We traded a guy who can't hit for a lottery ticket in Gomez. Where's the harm?


The harm is that we didn't get Felix Hernandez for Latimore, NH is a terrible GM. :roll:

He turned down the Latimore for King Felix trade because Felix makes too much money.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:27 pm 
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This trade probably wouldn't even show up on my list of things that make me believe that NH is a bad GM and should be fired.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:58 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
This trade probably wouldn't even show up on my list of things that make me believe that NH is a bad GM and should be fired.

Exactly. It's largely a non-event.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Willton wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
No harm. But this GM consistently makes a bunch of these moves. This guy isn't a lottery ticket, he's a bum. If NH would spend as much time trying to make some creative trades for legitimate players maybe he'd have something.

For the record, AJ Burnett was a lottery ticket. Melancon is a lottery ticket. They had some success prior to acquisition. Gemini Gomez or whatever his name is, is awful. It's a clown move...and there are too many of these and not enough legit moves being made.

"Clown move"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Only clowns attempt to get emergency pitching depth? Every team makes moves like this. But if you think the Pirates make too many of them, please feel free to list the ones that they have made this off season.

As Charlie indicates at Bucs Dugout, "[t]his move may reflect the Pirates' need to acquire more depth in the rotation now that the Francisco Liriano deal is in limbo and Rick VandenHurk has departed for Korea, but unless Gomez dramatically improves, the Pirates would have to be in pretty big trouble to consider starting him." And that's what Gomez is: disaster insurance.

Please feel free to list the creative trades NH has made in an offseason to pick up legitimate talent. Trading a "decent" prospect for someone another team is looking to move maybe due to salary or an overload at a certain position. Other than picking up Burnett he hasn't. But he constantly brings in "emergency" guys with little or no hope of performing well. Remember the other year he picked up Dana Eveland mid season and said he'd be an upgrade in our rotation then pitched him 4 innings(not well if I remember correctly) and then released him. There is no harm, as you say, but I've had enough of these moves. Hell, try some of your own AAA guys if we are in that big of an emergency.

Look, the Burnett pick up was a good move that turned in to a great move. The Liriano move had the same potential. But how about trying something more creative than combing the trash heap on a consistent basis for guys like Gomez. And if we were counting VandenHurk as a possibility, God help us!


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Willton wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
This trade probably wouldn't even show up on my list of things that make me believe that NH is a bad GM and should be fired.

Exactly. It's largely a non-event.

Nor is it at the top of my list, but it IS on my list. With a team at the Pirates talent level, you don't win by constantly going after these type of players...emergency or not. Maybe he is working on acquiring someone decent...and he better be because if Liriano doesn't come and/or Cole isn't a tremendous mid season call up this pitching staff could be in real trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:07 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Willton wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
No harm. But this GM consistently makes a bunch of these moves. This guy isn't a lottery ticket, he's a bum. If NH would spend as much time trying to make some creative trades for legitimate players maybe he'd have something.

For the record, AJ Burnett was a lottery ticket. Melancon is a lottery ticket. They had some success prior to acquisition. Gemini Gomez or whatever his name is, is awful. It's a clown move...and there are too many of these and not enough legit moves being made.

"Clown move"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Only clowns attempt to get emergency pitching depth? Every team makes moves like this. But if you think the Pirates make too many of them, please feel free to list the ones that they have made this off season.

As Charlie indicates at Bucs Dugout, "[t]his move may reflect the Pirates' need to acquire more depth in the rotation now that the Francisco Liriano deal is in limbo and Rick VandenHurk has departed for Korea, but unless Gomez dramatically improves, the Pirates would have to be in pretty big trouble to consider starting him." And that's what Gomez is: disaster insurance.

Please feel free to list the creative trades NH has made in an offseason to pick up legitimate talent. Trading a "decent" prospect for someone another team is looking to move maybe due to salary or an overload at a certain position. Other than picking up Burnett he hasn't. But he constantly brings in "emergency" guys with little or no hope of performing well. Remember the other year he picked up Dana Eveland mid season and said he'd be an upgrade in our rotation then pitched him 4 innings(not well if I remember correctly) and then released him. There is no harm, as you say, but I've had enough of these moves. Hell, try some of your own AAA guys if we are in that big of an emergency.

Look, the Burnett pick up was a good move that turned in to a great move. The Liriano move had the same potential. But how about trying something more creative than combing the trash heap on a consistent basis for guys like Gomez. And if we were counting VandenHurk as a possibility, God help us!

As they say, it takes two to tango. Huntington can't execute any "creative trades" without at least one willing partner from another team. The reason Burnett was available last year was because the Yankees were dying to get rid of him, and Burnett's no-trade clause did not limit a trade to Pittsburgh. The circumstances that presented the opportunity to attain Burnett were highly unusual. It's difficult ask for more trades like the Burnett trade when such opportunities rarely materialize.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:31 am 
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I'm not sure what the problem is here. It's a non-move. Who cares?


Quincy Latimore is a 24 year old AA player who CAN'T and NEVER WILL be a major league hitter. He's a non-prospect. In exchange you got a 24 year old pitcher already at the majors. Yes his numbers aren't good but for some reason he has something that got him to the majors. And aside from a select few super stars, at what age do most pitchers start to "get it".

Even of it doesn't work out ad you DFA him, who cares. Latimore was NEVER going to be on our Major league roster.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:53 pm 
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I would be more interested in keeping Vandenhurk than in adding Gomez, a guy who walks a ton and gives up HR's by the bushel.

Vandenhurk was reportedly dealing in the mid-90's as a SP'er for Indy last year, which may go a long way towards explaining his 13 W's and 2.92 ERA.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:19 pm 
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VandenHurk signed with a Korean league.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2013/1/7/38 ... sung-lions

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:04 am 
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I had read that point on another site, Dan. I misphrased what I meant to say - i.e., that I would have preferred keeping VandenHurk over acquiring Gomez.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:26 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
I had read that point on another site, Dan. I misphrased what I meant to say - i.e., that I would have preferred keeping VandenHurk over acquiring Gomez.


I would agree. Good analysis. I never got why VandenHurk didn't get at least one start in September after his stellar year in AAA.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:29 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
I had read that point on another site, Dan. I misphrased what I meant to say - i.e., that I would have preferred keeping VandenHurk over acquiring Gomez.


I would agree. Good analysis. I never got why VandenHurk didn't get at least one start in September after his stellar year in AAA.

The fact that he is now pitching in Korea doesn't give you any idea???


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:04 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
The fact that he is now pitching in Korea doesn't give you any idea???

The fact that he was dealing at 95-96 mph in AAA, with a very good slider, good command, more than 8 K's per 9 IP, and posted a 2.92 ERA in the International League is what I was considering.

The fact that Gomez is a prototypical high-walk, low K, HR-plagued punching bag is another.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:05 pm 
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I dunno, VdH pitched in five games for us last year, as we were swooning, granted, but gave up 5 runs, 5 hits, 4 walks and one hit batter and didn't once get out of an inning cleanly.

Is that enough of a call up? I don't think so either, but he certainly didn't help himself. And he's no spring chicken, being 27....


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:53 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
The fact that he is now pitching in Korea doesn't give you any idea???

The fact that he was dealing at 95-96 mph in AAA, with a very good slider, good command, more than 8 K's per 9 IP, and posted a 2.92 ERA in the International League is what I was considering.

The fact that Gomez is a prototypical high-walk, low K, HR-plagued punching bag is another.


So every team in Major League baseball is wrong? But you are correct? Obviously he isn't good enough to pitch in the majors, no team wants him. He's in Korea for crying out loud.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:10 am 
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val wrote:
I dunno, VdH pitched in five games for us last year, as we were swooning, granted, but gave up 5 runs, 5 hits, 4 walks and one hit batter and didn't once get out of an inning cleanly.

I am not basing my criticism of the moves on Vandenhurk's 2 innings. I am basing it on Vandenhurk's throwing 95 mph with a good slider, the fact that he was already under the Pirates' control, and MAINLY the fact that Gomez IS NOT GOOD.

In terms of selective stats, I will note that Vandenhurk's career major league stats show 8.8 K's/9 IP, while Gomez' career stats show an uninspiring 4.9 K's/9 IP. That is not really surprising, since Vandenhurk's career minor league stats show 8.0 K's/9 IP and 8.0 H's per 9 IP, Gomez' 6.7 K's/9 IP and 9.2 H's per 9 IP.

Did I mention that the Pirates already controlled RVH and did not need to trade anybody for him? And that he pitched really well in AAA last season?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Qunicy Latimore traded to Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:19 am 
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rellimie wrote:
So every team in Major League baseball is wrong? But you are correct?

Yes.

rellimie wrote:
He's in Korea for crying out loud.

Two words:

Ryan Vogelsong.


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