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 Post subject: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:00 pm 
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http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/01/winter-leagues-recap-marte-marte-marte.html


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:36 pm 
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He is en fuego at this point of the winter season..... 8-) 8-) Hope he can carry it over....If so, look out....


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Charleston_Charlies wrote:


Keep in mind that Jose Castillo once destroyed this league. The level of competition is all over the place. Wash out latin players near age 30, minor leaguers, and AAAA types.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:58 pm 
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If Clint Hurdle plans on batting Marte at the top of the lineup, let's hope he can get on base at a .330 clip or better in 2013. Otherwise, even with some pop, he won't be creating enough runs.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:26 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
If Clint Hurdle plans on batting Marte at the top of the lineup, let's hope he can get on base at a .330 clip or better in 2013. Otherwise, even with some pop, he won't be creating enough runs.


He should not be the leadoff guy. Against LHP it should be Tabata, against RHP it should be Walker. Of course CH will hit Marte leadoff and keep Walker down the lineup because he has a knack for producing runs, ugh.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Charleston_Charlies wrote:


Keep in mind that Jose Castillo once destroyed this league. The level of competition is all over the place. Wash out latin players near age 30, minor leaguers, and AAAA types.


Yeah, but still.

It's better news than if he were struggling.

Of course, playing all this extra ball does bring to question if he'll be able to stay in top health/performance for a full 162 game season or if it might help his endurance.

Here's hoping it's the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:12 pm 
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I'm not looking forward to another year of Hurdle's managerial excellence.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I'm not looking forward to another year of Hurdle's managerial excellence.


Don't know why you're worried about another year of Hurdle's managerial excellence when it clearly ceases after July. ;) :D

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:06 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If Clint Hurdle plans on batting Marte at the top of the lineup, let's hope he can get on base at a .330 clip or better in 2013. Otherwise, even with some pop, he won't be creating enough runs.


He should not be the leadoff guy. Against LHP it should be Tabata, against RHP it should be Walker. Of course CH will hit Marte leadoff and keep Walker down the lineup because he has a knack for producing runs, ugh.


This team does not have a leadoff hitter on the 40 man roster. Marte is the best fit because IF he does get on base he has enough speed to get into scoring position either by hitting a double or stealing.

Walker does have a knack for producing runs, not sure why you are "ugh"ing that. Walker is perfect in either the 2 hole. Cutch is obviously 3rd, Jones 4th. Not sure who will bat 5th, I assume Alvarez.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:26 am 
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Learning curve......


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:19 am 
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rellimie wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If Clint Hurdle plans on batting Marte at the top of the lineup, let's hope he can get on base at a .330 clip or better in 2013. Otherwise, even with some pop, he won't be creating enough runs.


He should not be the leadoff guy. Against LHP it should be Tabata, against RHP it should be Walker. Of course CH will hit Marte leadoff and keep Walker down the lineup because he has a knack for producing runs, ugh.


This team does not have a leadoff hitter on the 40 man roster. Marte is the best fit because IF he does get on base he has enough speed to get into scoring position either by hitting a double or stealing.

Walker does have a knack for producing runs, not sure why you are "ugh"ing that. Walker is perfect in either the 2 hole. Cutch is obviously 3rd, Jones 4th. Not sure who will bat 5th, I assume Alvarez.


Marte is not a good option at all, he's one of the worst. The job of a leadoff hitter is to get on base, his worst skill. Tabata has shown the ability to be a .350 obp guy and when he starts he is the leadoff guy we need.

I'll concede that Walker does hit better with men on base, but most MLB hitters do. Barmes hit .200 ops points higher with men on than with empty bases. Almost every pitcher is worse in the stretch than from the windup (incidentally that's why the Bucs were ignoring baserunning against in 2012). The RBI producer tab is nonsense its all driven by having people in front of you get on base. In 2012 it was often Cutch ahead of Neil that led to RBI. I'm fine with Walker 2, Tabata 1. Cutch 3, Pedro 4, Marte should bat 5th and Jones 6th. If Snider is in I'd hit him 2nd with Walker leadoff.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:54 am 
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Next to McCutchen, Walker is your best on base guy. Not all leadoff hitters have to have blazing speed to steal bases or stretch out doubles. Walker hits plenty of doubles and has decent speed. I wouldn't have a problem with Walker hitting leadoff.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:22 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Next to McCutchen, Walker is your best on base guy. Not all leadoff hitters have to have blazing speed to steal bases or stretch out doubles. Walker hits plenty of doubles and has decent speed. I wouldn't have a problem with Walker hitting leadoff.



Exactly. That "gotta be fast" thinking leads managers to put offensive black holes like Dee Gordon at the top.

Not every fast guy is Billy Hamilton, in that he's fast AND he gets on base, at least in the minors.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
rellimie wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
He should not be the leadoff guy. Against LHP it should be Tabata, against RHP it should be Walker. Of course CH will hit Marte leadoff and keep Walker down the lineup because he has a knack for producing runs, ugh.


This team does not have a leadoff hitter on the 40 man roster. Marte is the best fit because IF he does get on base he has enough speed to get into scoring position either by hitting a double or stealing.

Walker does have a knack for producing runs, not sure why you are "ugh"ing that. Walker is perfect in either the 2 hole. Cutch is obviously 3rd, Jones 4th. Not sure who will bat 5th, I assume Alvarez.


Marte is not a good option at all, he's one of the worst. The job of a leadoff hitter is to get on base, his worst skill. Tabata has shown the ability to be a .350 obp guy and when he starts he is the leadoff guy we need.

I'll concede that Walker does hit better with men on base, but most MLB hitters do. Barmes hit .200 ops points higher with men on than with empty bases. Almost every pitcher is worse in the stretch than from the windup (incidentally that's why the Bucs were ignoring baserunning against in 2012). The RBI producer tab is nonsense its all driven by having people in front of you get on base. In 2012 it was often Cutch ahead of Neil that led to RBI. I'm fine with Walker 2, Tabata 1. Cutch 3, Pedro 4, Marte should bat 5th and Jones 6th. If Snider is in I'd hit him 2nd with Walker leadoff.

I'm still praying Tabata isn't on the roster at the start of the year. I've seen enough of him. He regressed so much physically and skills wise that I'm not sure we should expect anything good from him. Everyone touts his OBP(which can't be denied), but a guy can't continue to hit tappers through holes and not eventually have them be outs. Plus once he gets on he either gets picked off or thrown out stealing.

I say give Marte the chance and see what he does. There are countless examples of guys whose numbers are different in the majors than they were in the minors. In the future(maybe as soon as later this year) I agree with you though. He is a guy I hope they don't mess with and just let him go up there hacking. With that in mind he would be better suited down in the order. I guess I just don't like the other options at leadoff to start the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:35 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
I'm still praying Tabata isn't on the roster at the start of the year. I've seen enough of him. He regressed so much physically and skills wise that I'm not sure we should expect anything good from him. Everyone touts his OBP(which can't be denied), but a guy can't continue to hit tappers through holes and not eventually have them be outs. Plus once he gets on he either gets picked off or thrown out stealing.

I say give Marte the chance and see what he does. There are countless examples of guys whose numbers are different in the majors than they were in the minors. In the future(maybe as soon as later this year) I agree with you though. He is a guy I hope they don't mess with and just let him go up there hacking. With that in mind he would be better suited down in the order. I guess I just don't like the other options at leadoff to start the year.


I might be the only one expecting a bounce back from Tabata. Then again I never thought he was playing that bad in 2012, particularly after the recall when he hit .284/.376/.370.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:17 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If Clint Hurdle plans on batting Marte at the top of the lineup, let's hope he can get on base at a .330 clip or better in 2013. Otherwise, even with some pop, he won't be creating enough runs.


He should not be the leadoff guy. Against LHP it should be Tabata, against RHP it should be Walker. Of course CH will hit Marte leadoff and keep Walker down the lineup because he has a knack for producing runs, ugh.


This team does not have a leadoff hitter on the 40 man roster. Marte is the best fit because IF he does get on base he has enough speed to get into scoring position either by hitting a double or stealing.

Walker does have a knack for producing runs, not sure why you are "ugh"ing that. Walker is perfect in either the 2 hole. Cutch is obviously 3rd, Jones 4th. Not sure who will bat 5th, I assume Alvarez.

Ten Most Important Traits for a Leadoff Hitter:

1. Gets on base.
2. Gets on base.
3. Gets on base.
4. Gets on base.
5. Gets on base.
6. Gets on base.
7. Gets on base.
8. Gets on base.
9. Gets on base.
10. Runs really fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:24 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Ten Most Important Traits for a Leadoff Hitter:

1. Gets on base.
2. Gets on base.
3. Gets on base.
4. Gets on base.
5. Gets on base.
6. Gets on base.
7. Gets on base.
8. Gets on base.
9. Gets on base.
10. Runs really fast.


I agree 100% with sisyphus.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:11 am 
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But what about all of these slow guys clogging up the basepaths!

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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:23 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
I'm still praying Tabata isn't on the roster at the start of the year. I've seen enough of him. He regressed so much physically and skills wise that I'm not sure we should expect anything good from him. Everyone touts his OBP(which can't be denied), but a guy can't continue to hit tappers through holes and not eventually have them be outs. Plus once he gets on he either gets picked off or thrown out stealing.

I say give Marte the chance and see what he does. There are countless examples of guys whose numbers are different in the majors than they were in the minors. In the future(maybe as soon as later this year) I agree with you though. He is a guy I hope they don't mess with and just let him go up there hacking. With that in mind he would be better suited down in the order. I guess I just don't like the other options at leadoff to start the year.


I might be the only one expecting a bounce back from Tabata. Then again I never thought he was playing that bad in 2012, particularly after the recall when he hit .284/.376/.370.


I thought he looked terrible. Granted he can make contact and draw some walks, but it's usually weak contact. He looked slow afoot, lackadaisical in attitude, and generally did not look good at all in the outfield or on the base paths.

Honestly if he didn't have that contract I wouldn't even expect him to make the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Marte looking good in Winter Leagues
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:57 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
But what about all of these slow guys clogging up the basepaths!

Quiet, Dusty. Nobody asked you.

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