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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:26 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


That's too much. Hanson is nearly unreplaceable as a SS. Stanton is good, but he's not good enough to bring Pittsburgh a ring or maybe even a playoff bid as the only addition. The team is solid right not, but we're two or three pieces away. Cole, Taillon, Marte, Hanson, and Polanco will be those major pieces. Don't trade 3 out of 5. Try and trade one (Marte/Polanco) or two (Taillon) but not more.

My opinion at least.


Hanson hasn't played a single game at the AA level yet, and he's no guarantee to stay at shortstop. He's certainly not irreplaceable. The only player on the Pirates who is truly irreplaceable is Andrew McCutchen.

As for Giancarlo Stanton, he is much better than "good." He's a young, prolific power hitter with the ability to put up MVP offensive numbers. He's put up .270/.350/.553 in his first three years (which, by the why, were his age 20, 21, and 22 years). Pairing him with Cutch would give the Pirates perhaps the best 3-4 hitting combination in baseball for the next three seasons.

The Pirates are certainly not a "solid" team at the moment. They're a thin team that can compete, but they lack depth, the ability to get on base, and a reliable starting rotation. That's why the team has collapsed the last two seasons. My proposed package would bring in an awesome power hitter, solidify the lineup, and still allow prospects like Gerrit Cole, Gregory Polanco, Josh Bell, Luis Heredia, and others the opportunity to improve the PBC.

The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Stanton is a one-in-a-generation power hitter that, if he is truly available, you have to go for! The Pirates 2-3-4-5-6 (Walker, Cutch, Stanton, Alvarez and GI Jones) would rival nearly ANY other team in the league. I realize that the cost would be great, but it would be worth it.

Perhaps you leverage the trade of Cole or Taillon by acquiring Nolasco in the deal as well. That would solidify the rotation as well.
AJ, JMac, Liriano, Nolasco and Wandy.

Damn it NH...DO THIS!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
Stanton is a one-in-a-generation power hitter that, if he is truly available, you have to go for! The Pirates 2-3-4-5-6 (Walker, Cutch, Stanton, Alvarez and GI Jones) would rival nearly ANY other team in the league.

Additionally, Stanton is a plus defender with a VERY good arm. He is a legitimate right-fielder.

The Pirates would then platoon Snider and Tabata in LF. At that point, the offense would be quite good - a number of players featuring above-average OBP (McCutchen, Stanton, Walker), power (Cutch, Stanton, Jones, Alvarez), and XBH (Cutch, Stanton, Walker, Alvarez, Jones, even Martin to an extent).

Also, the pitching is on the way with Cole to go along with McDonald, Rodriguez, Liriano, McPherson, and Locke.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:48 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.

Absolutely.

A team with Pedro as its second best hitter is going to struggle to put up runs. A team where Pedro is the third best hitter (or fourth best, depending on how you rank Pedro - Walker) is going to score a lot more runs. And we've had real troubles scoring runs during our late season swoons.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:48 am 
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[quote="J_C_Steel]Hanson hasn't played a single game at the AA level yet, and he's no guarantee to stay at shortstop. He's certainly not irreplaceable. The only player on the Pirates who is truly irreplaceable is Andrew McCutchen.

The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.[/quote]

In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Due to his age, I don't see the Marlins trading him yet. That said, to try and predict what the owner of the Marlins is a fruitless proposition. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:47 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


This is true in terms of talent/on the field. When it comes to the Marlins though, we all know that once money is factored in nobody is 'irreplaceable'.

Those of you who think Stanton won't be moved this season are probably right though. The Marlins will wait until they have to pay him arb money before selling him for more lotto tickets.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:04 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


I disagree, and I'll tell you why. Stanton showed up his owner and GM with his disparaging public remarks. He's young, pissed off, and clearly willing to speak his mind about the Marlins' fire sale and lack of commitment to fielding a competitive team in 2013. Cutch has done none of those things. I believe Miami would unload a disgruntled Sranton for the right price.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:45 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


I disagree, and I'll tell you why. Stanton showed up his owner and GM with his disparaging public remarks. He's young, pissed off, and clearly willing to speak his mind about the Marlins' fire sale and lack of commitment to fielding a competitive team in 2013. Cutch has done none of those things. I believe Miami would unload a disgruntled Sranton for the right price.

Yes, but what is the right price? We can make proposals as to what we would be willing to trade, but that says nothing as to what the Marlins are willing to accept. As per MLB Trade Rumors, several teams have inquired into the Marlins' willingness to trade Stanton since November, and nothing has happened since. How eager could the Marlins be if they haven't cut a deal to trade Stanton after 2 months of inquiries?

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:20 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


That's too much. Hanson is nearly unreplaceable as a SS. Stanton is good, but he's not good enough to bring Pittsburgh a ring or maybe even a playoff bid as the only addition. The team is solid right not, but we're two or three pieces away. Cole, Taillon, Marte, Hanson, and Polanco will be those major pieces. Don't trade 3 out of 5. Try and trade one (Marte/Polanco) or two (Taillon) but not more.

My opinion at least.


Alan Hanson is not a SS. Yes he is playing there but he lacks the arm and the range to stay there long term. 2B is probably going to end up being his Natural position and if that is the case he is blocked by Walker for the foreseeable future.

Marlins get
Taillion (top prospect)
Tabata (young, cheap, potential) - play now
Sands (young, cheap, potential) - play now
McPherson (ml starter, cheap) - play now
Hanson (top prospect)
Bell (top prospect)

Pirates get
Stanton
Nolasco (take on the salary to entice the Marlins)

C - Martin
1B - Jones/Sanchez
2B - Walker
SS - Barmes
3B - Alvarez
LF - Marte
CF - McCutchen
RF - Stanton

SP - Burnett
SP - Rodriguez
SP - Liriano
SP - McDonald
SP - Nolasco


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Other teams may have inquired, but it's quite possible that the Pirates are one of the few fits for what the Marlins would want to get....several real prospects with lots of years of control. I remember Neal being questioned about hoarding all the pitching prospects and saying that one of the reasons for taking so many pitchers over position players was because they were a more tradeable commodity as prospects.

This would indeed cost us a lot, but what is the harm in offering a package similar to those being suggested here. I do agree that I would not include Cole in any package, but i would certainly include the others plus throw in one of our 3,000 corner OF/1B candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:13 pm 
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bradf wrote:
I do agree that I would not include Cole in any package


I agree but I also feel the same about Marte at this point. Call me crazy but if he steps it up with Cutch here it is a plus. Stanton is intriguing and a force. Where his head is would be the big ? IMHO 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:35 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
bradf wrote:
I do agree that I would not include Cole in any package


I agree but I also feel the same about Marte at this point. Call me crazy but if he steps it up with Cutch here it is a plus. Stanton is intriguing and a force. Where his head is would be the big ? IMHO 8-) 8-)


Marte is 24 (25 at the end of this season) and still has a lot to prove, IMO still a prospect with potential. Stanton is 2 years and 1 month younger and already a 40HR power hitter with that can hit for average and get on base. No way would I let a deal for Stanton fall through because I don't want to throw Marte in.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:06 am 
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There is absolutely no way the bucs could get Stanton here without giving up Cole. C'mon now.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:04 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
There is absolutely no way the bucs could get Stanton here without giving up Cole. From anyone other than Peter Lorria.


Fixed :)

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:58 am 
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The Pirates simply cannot trade Gerrit Cole. Why? Well, I GMed the Pirates in MLB '12 The Show on my PlayStation Vita from 2013 through 2030 and Cole ended up with a career that saw him compile the following statistics:

18 seasons
405 wins
66 losses
4,136 strikeouts
2.78 ERA
10 Cy Young awards
3 MVP awards
13 World Series titles
2 World Series MVP trophies

In my view, anything less than that for Cole will be a disappointment.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:30 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The Pirates simply cannot trade Gerrit Cole. Why? Well, I GMed the Pirates in MLB '12 The Show on my PlayStation Vita from 2013 through 2030 and Cole ended up with a career that saw him compile the following statistics:

18 seasons
405 wins
66 losses
4,136 strikeouts
2.78 ERA
10 Cy Young awards
3 MVP awards
13 World Series titles
2 World Series MVP trophies

In my view, anything less than that for Cole will be a disappointment.


That's kind of like the Pedro plaque that Tim Williams made on his debut day :D

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:18 pm 
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I don't think trading for Stanton makes a whole lot of sense...I mean it would be very exciting and could work out, but we have other needs, and it would suck giving up Cole or Taillon, and I think we should give Marte a long look in left field.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
I don't think trading for Stanton makes a whole lot of sense...I mean it would be very exciting and could work out, but we have other needs, and it would suck giving up Cole or Taillon, and I think we should give Marte a long look in left field.


Genuinely curious:

Over the years you have demanded that the Bucs FO spends cash on big name FA's, from Pujols to Reyes.

So why would you be opposed to trading for such an impact player?

The Bucs are in a better position to trade prospects for a young 'sure thing' than to break the bank for older one (with higher potential to decline).

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:21 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
I don't think trading for Stanton makes a whole lot of sense...I mean it would be very exciting and could work out, but we have other needs, and it would suck giving up Cole or Taillon, and I think we should give Marte a long look in left field.


Genuinely curious:

Over the years you have demanded that the Bucs FO spends cash on big name FA's, from Pujols to Reyes.

So why would you be opposed to trading for such an impact player?

The Bucs are in a better position to trade prospects for a young 'sure thing' than to break the bank for older one (with higher potential to decline).


Cole can be an impact player for the Pirates this season, and he would be under control longer then Stanton. Thats why I don't think they should move him for Stanton...However I would still be very exciting to see Stanton play for the bucs.


I just never understand why the bucs shell out about 10-15 million a year on declining stop gap mediocre veterans every season. Look at the Randa, Burnitz, Barmes, Barajas, Overbay, ect. If they would instead save that money up to pay guys they draft or pay young foreign talent like Cespedes or Sano, then they would have more success. Even saving up money for a couple years to go out and pay a Jose Reyes would have made sense instead of signing mediocre veterans

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