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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:01 am 
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Bucfan, I think the Marlins want to trade Stanton if they get the right deal. Stanton called the Marlins out after the blockbuster deal with Toronto and if there's one thing I know about Jeffrey Loria, he doesn't react well to criticism...
I really hope NH pursues this opportunity. It's time for the Bucs to take a gamble and put some lumber in this offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:04 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Any team interested in Stanton better be prepared to give up a ton of young talent. Look at it this way - what would we expect in return for McCutchen?

Stanton is not too far from McCutcen. He had a 5.8 WAR last year despite missing 35 games due to knee surgery. If he plays 150 games, he posts a 7.0 WAR - where McCutchen posted a 7.1 in his brilliant season last year.

Therefore, getting a player of that caliber comes at a cost. The Pirates may be one of 4 or 5 teams that actually has the young talent that would interest the Marlins:

  • A young starting OF'er to replace Stanton (Marte)
  • A potential top-end starting pitcher (Taillon)
  • Another legitimate SP'er candidate (Kingham or McPherson, for example)

The Pirates can afford to trade Marte since they put Stanton in the OF.

They can afford to trade Taillon because they have Cole and Heredia as top-tier future starting pitchers.

The Pirates can afford to deal Kingham or McPherson becase they have legitimate SP'er depth in the minors (Locke, Holmes, Glasnow).

I seriously doubt that the Marlins make the deal if for no other reason than public relations. If the team had not dealt Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, etc., then a possible deal would be more likely.

I think a trade for Stanton would demand Cole.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:46 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
I seriously doubt that the Marlins make the deal if for no other reason than public relations.


I seriously doubt that the Marlins have many fans left to alienate. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:38 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Any team interested in Stanton better be prepared to give up a ton of young talent. Look at it this way - what would we expect in return for McCutchen?

Stanton is not too far from McCutcen. He had a 5.8 WAR last year despite missing 35 games due to knee surgery. If he plays 150 games, he posts a 7.0 WAR - where McCutchen posted a 7.1 in his brilliant season last year.

Therefore, getting a player of that caliber comes at a cost. The Pirates may be one of 4 or 5 teams that actually has the young talent that would interest the Marlins:

  • A young starting OF'er to replace Stanton (Marte)
  • A potential top-end starting pitcher (Taillon)
  • Another legitimate SP'er candidate (Kingham or McPherson, for example)

The Pirates can afford to trade Marte since they put Stanton in the OF.

They can afford to trade Taillon because they have Cole and Heredia as top-tier future starting pitchers.

The Pirates can afford to deal Kingham or McPherson becase they have legitimate SP'er depth in the minors (Locke, Holmes, Glasnow).

I seriously doubt that the Marlins make the deal if for no other reason than public relations. If the team had not dealt Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, etc., then a possible deal would be more likely.


I think I would do Marte, Taillon, Kingham, but you are going to have to add more. Probably like Herrera, De-Jhang, and something else. That still might not be close.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:43 am 
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Ryann wrote:
I think a trade for Stanton would demand Cole.

I don't doubt that the Marlins ask for Cole, but if I am the Pirates, I decline that offer. The reason is that Cole is more of a sure thing than Taillon, has 6 years to be a Pirate while Stanton would have 3 more years of team control, and Cole is arguably as big a producer as Stanton.

Genuine No. 1 starting pitchers who deal in the upper 90's, with excellent mechanics, good health up to age 22, and a potential 4-pitch arsenal are as rare as 35 HR hitters.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:44 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
I think a trade for Stanton would demand Cole.

I don't doubt that the Marlins ask for Cole, but if I am the Pirates, I decline that offer. The reason is that Cole is more of a sure thing than Taillon, has 6 years to be a Pirate while Stanton would have 3 more years of team control, and Cole is arguably as big a producer as Stanton.

Genuine No. 1 starting pitchers who deal in the upper 90's, with excellent mechanics, good health up to age 22, and a potential 4-pitch arsenal are as rare as 35 HR hitters.


Especially since we already have 2 30hr+ hitters on this team. Mccutchen would have probably had 40 if he didn't slump.

Cole to me is untouchable no matter who is offered.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
I think a trade for Stanton would demand Cole.


They could demand, but it's doubtful NH budges on that one (unless the rest of the trade is lesser prospects---Cole, Marte and maybe a third player).

In the past the Marlins have sold star players for less, although those players were due some big paydays (Miggy, Reyes, JJ, Buehrle, Bell, etc.)

If the Marlins were serious about moving Stanton and had the Pirates as a possible trade partner in mind, Cole would be the prize, but it would probably be easier to pry a bunch of guys like Taillon, Marte, Polanco, Hanson, K-Mac and/or Bell, etc. than demanding Cole and the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:21 pm 
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I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:51 pm 
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The Marlins' GMs comments about Stanton's supposed availability is no different than NH's comments about McCutchen's availability. No one is "untouchable" in the sense that one could concoct or envision a trade for any player as long as the return is high enough. Hell, if the Bucs offered McCutchen, Cole, Taillon, Heredia, Bell and Marte, I bet the Angels would at least consider trading Trout.

I don't believe that the Marlins are any more interested in trading Stanton than they were in December 2011.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:12 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


That's too much. Hanson is nearly unreplaceable as a SS. Stanton is good, but he's not good enough to bring Pittsburgh a ring or maybe even a playoff bid as the only addition. The team is solid right not, but we're two or three pieces away. Cole, Taillon, Marte, Hanson, and Polanco will be those major pieces. Don't trade 3 out of 5. Try and trade one (Marte/Polanco) or two (Taillon) but not more.

My opinion at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:26 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


That's too much. Hanson is nearly unreplaceable as a SS. Stanton is good, but he's not good enough to bring Pittsburgh a ring or maybe even a playoff bid as the only addition. The team is solid right not, but we're two or three pieces away. Cole, Taillon, Marte, Hanson, and Polanco will be those major pieces. Don't trade 3 out of 5. Try and trade one (Marte/Polanco) or two (Taillon) but not more.

My opinion at least.


Hanson hasn't played a single game at the AA level yet, and he's no guarantee to stay at shortstop. He's certainly not irreplaceable. The only player on the Pirates who is truly irreplaceable is Andrew McCutchen.

As for Giancarlo Stanton, he is much better than "good." He's a young, prolific power hitter with the ability to put up MVP offensive numbers. He's put up .270/.350/.553 in his first three years (which, by the why, were his age 20, 21, and 22 years). Pairing him with Cutch would give the Pirates perhaps the best 3-4 hitting combination in baseball for the next three seasons.

The Pirates are certainly not a "solid" team at the moment. They're a thin team that can compete, but they lack depth, the ability to get on base, and a reliable starting rotation. That's why the team has collapsed the last two seasons. My proposed package would bring in an awesome power hitter, solidify the lineup, and still allow prospects like Gerrit Cole, Gregory Polanco, Josh Bell, Luis Heredia, and others the opportunity to improve the PBC.

The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Stanton is a one-in-a-generation power hitter that, if he is truly available, you have to go for! The Pirates 2-3-4-5-6 (Walker, Cutch, Stanton, Alvarez and GI Jones) would rival nearly ANY other team in the league. I realize that the cost would be great, but it would be worth it.

Perhaps you leverage the trade of Cole or Taillon by acquiring Nolasco in the deal as well. That would solidify the rotation as well.
AJ, JMac, Liriano, Nolasco and Wandy.

Damn it NH...DO THIS!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
Stanton is a one-in-a-generation power hitter that, if he is truly available, you have to go for! The Pirates 2-3-4-5-6 (Walker, Cutch, Stanton, Alvarez and GI Jones) would rival nearly ANY other team in the league.

Additionally, Stanton is a plus defender with a VERY good arm. He is a legitimate right-fielder.

The Pirates would then platoon Snider and Tabata in LF. At that point, the offense would be quite good - a number of players featuring above-average OBP (McCutchen, Stanton, Walker), power (Cutch, Stanton, Jones, Alvarez), and XBH (Cutch, Stanton, Walker, Alvarez, Jones, even Martin to an extent).

Also, the pitching is on the way with Cole to go along with McDonald, Rodriguez, Liriano, McPherson, and Locke.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:48 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.

Absolutely.

A team with Pedro as its second best hitter is going to struggle to put up runs. A team where Pedro is the third best hitter (or fourth best, depending on how you rank Pedro - Walker) is going to score a lot more runs. And we've had real troubles scoring runs during our late season swoons.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:48 am 
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[quote="J_C_Steel]Hanson hasn't played a single game at the AA level yet, and he's no guarantee to stay at shortstop. He's certainly not irreplaceable. The only player on the Pirates who is truly irreplaceable is Andrew McCutchen.

The overarching point is this -- when you have a chance to acquire an MVP-level talent at 23 years old, you do it, and you make a bountiful offer to do so.[/quote]

In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Due to his age, I don't see the Marlins trading him yet. That said, to try and predict what the owner of the Marlins is a fruitless proposition. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:47 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


This is true in terms of talent/on the field. When it comes to the Marlins though, we all know that once money is factored in nobody is 'irreplaceable'.

Those of you who think Stanton won't be moved this season are probably right though. The Marlins will wait until they have to pay him arb money before selling him for more lotto tickets.

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:04 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


I disagree, and I'll tell you why. Stanton showed up his owner and GM with his disparaging public remarks. He's young, pissed off, and clearly willing to speak his mind about the Marlins' fire sale and lack of commitment to fielding a competitive team in 2013. Cutch has done none of those things. I believe Miami would unload a disgruntled Sranton for the right price.


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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:45 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
In my opinion, the overarching point to be made is that Stanton is no more available than is McCutchen. Everything written here about Stanton can be written about McCutchen by the fans of 29 other teams. Huntington says no one is untouchable .... McCutchen must be "available" ... young MVP type talent .... must be obtained.

If the only player on the Pirates "who is truly irreplaceable" is McCutchen, then the same can be said about Stanton.


I disagree, and I'll tell you why. Stanton showed up his owner and GM with his disparaging public remarks. He's young, pissed off, and clearly willing to speak his mind about the Marlins' fire sale and lack of commitment to fielding a competitive team in 2013. Cutch has done none of those things. I believe Miami would unload a disgruntled Sranton for the right price.

Yes, but what is the right price? We can make proposals as to what we would be willing to trade, but that says nothing as to what the Marlins are willing to accept. As per MLB Trade Rumors, several teams have inquired into the Marlins' willingness to trade Stanton since November, and nothing has happened since. How eager could the Marlins be if they haven't cut a deal to trade Stanton after 2 months of inquiries?

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 Post subject: Re: Giancarlo Stanton is Available
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:20 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I've been calling for this ever since the Marlins fire sale began. If a package of, say, Taillon, Marte, Sands, Hanson, and Kingham could bring back Giancarlo Stanton, the Pirates should do it. Pairing him with McCutchen gives the Bucs one of the best 3-4 hitter tandems in the majors for years to come.


That's too much. Hanson is nearly unreplaceable as a SS. Stanton is good, but he's not good enough to bring Pittsburgh a ring or maybe even a playoff bid as the only addition. The team is solid right not, but we're two or three pieces away. Cole, Taillon, Marte, Hanson, and Polanco will be those major pieces. Don't trade 3 out of 5. Try and trade one (Marte/Polanco) or two (Taillon) but not more.

My opinion at least.


Alan Hanson is not a SS. Yes he is playing there but he lacks the arm and the range to stay there long term. 2B is probably going to end up being his Natural position and if that is the case he is blocked by Walker for the foreseeable future.

Marlins get
Taillion (top prospect)
Tabata (young, cheap, potential) - play now
Sands (young, cheap, potential) - play now
McPherson (ml starter, cheap) - play now
Hanson (top prospect)
Bell (top prospect)

Pirates get
Stanton
Nolasco (take on the salary to entice the Marlins)

C - Martin
1B - Jones/Sanchez
2B - Walker
SS - Barmes
3B - Alvarez
LF - Marte
CF - McCutchen
RF - Stanton

SP - Burnett
SP - Rodriguez
SP - Liriano
SP - McDonald
SP - Nolasco


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