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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:58 pm 
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And let's be honest with ourselves. The Bucs' starting rotation is thin and includes some wild cards (i.e., James McDonald and Francisco Liriano).

For 2013, isn't the Cubs' rotation actually better? They have:

Jeff Samardzija
Edwin Jackson
Matt Garza
Travis Wood
Scott Baker / Scott Feldman

I know Garza and Baker are coming back from injuries, but they have a history of effectiveness pre-injury. It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:30 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


Even if you were 100% correct, you'd be wildly underselling how terrible the Cubs lineup is compared to the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:35 pm 
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What's the deal with DeJesus? I know very little about him other than that he's Rey Sanchez 2.0.

How many options does he have left (if any) and can he play 2B, SS AND 3B like Harrison/Mercer?

Depending on those factors, wouldn't Harrison and/or Mercer be better MIF options?

---

Also, there was an article I read that made a compelling case for trading GJ, not only because of the 1B/RF logjam, but because, as evidence by the Hammer trade, it's best to trade guys at their peak value and that time is now for Jones.

When you consider his age, the potential 'superfluous' position(s) that he fills and that he'll probably never be better than he was in 2012, it becomes pretty clear that trading Jones is the way to go...

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:38 am 
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The roster is far from elite, but the only place I feel like they should seek to improve is to look for a solid mid-rotation starter with at least 2 years of control left. Don't have names off the top of my head, but I'd do it if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell and a C prospect (Zack Dodson or something like that) or a package of Locke/McPherson + Kingham + a C+ prospect like Willy Garcia.

Otherwise, I think just continuing to improve and waiting for Marte, Polanco, Cole, Taillon, Locke, McPherson, Sanchez, and Hanson is the way to go. (All of those guys will start at AA or above except Hanson/Polanco who I think have the talent to move quickly and could be ready in 2015).

Sucks waiting more, but Cutch and Walker ain't going anywhere soon - Cutch is signed through '18 and Walker will be extended at some point - and those are the two true proven building blocks we have right now at the major league level.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:12 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
And let's be honest with ourselves. The Bucs' starting rotation is thin and includes some wild cards (i.e., James McDonald and Francisco Liriano).

For 2013, isn't the Cubs' rotation actually better? They have:

Jeff Samardzija
Edwin Jackson
Matt Garza
Travis Wood
Scott Baker / Scott Feldman

I know Garza and Baker are coming back from injuries, but they have a history of effectiveness pre-injury. It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


Yeah, I'd make the trade, but there is a lot more to a roster than just starters. The Cubs lineup and bullpen is terrible. The Brewers have the worst rotation in the division, but will have a good lineup. At any rate, we don't match up well with the Cards on paper and the Reds look pretty tough too. The Bucs won't compete without one of JMac or Liriano returning to top form. Also, don't forget we can add Cole/Taillon while the others (sans St.Louis) don't have anything close to that.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:26 pm 
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If Liriano gets anywhere near his top form, I'd feel really good about this team's chances of winning 82+ and competing for a playoff spot.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:17 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
If Liriano gets anywhere near his top form, I'd feel really good about this team's chances of winning 82+ and competing for a playoff spot.


Especially if Cole gets added for the 2nd half. It would be like making a trade without actually trading.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:49 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
What's the deal with DeJesus? I know very little about him other than that he's Rey Sanchez 2.0.


I just realized that I meant to say 'Rey Ordonez 2.0', so I wondered who the heck Rey Sanchez was and looked him up on BR.com.

To my delight, Rey Sanchez was also a slap-hitting, no offense 2B/SS.

What a Rey-lief! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:53 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
...if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell


Totally forgot about him! Good call.

Curious how he fits now with the logjam in OF, the departure of Grossman, and emergence of Polanco.

Also curious how other teams would guage his value after his injury.

---

One thing is for sure, even with all of this potential 'this is only a 7x win team club' talk:

The Pirates have a decent enough farm system where they could make a mid-season trade to acquire an impact player or two.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:54 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
...if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell


Totally forgot about him! Good call.

Curious how he fits now with the logjam in OF, the departure of Grossman, and emergence of Polanco.

Also curious how other teams would guage his value after his injury.

---

One thing is for sure, even with all of this potential 'this is only a 7x win team club' talk:

The Pirates have a decent enough farm system where they could make a mid-season trade to acquire an impact player or two.

Bell is at the very least three years away. My guess is that the logjam in the OF might be cleared up long before then.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:12 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Bell is at the very least three years away. My guess is that the logjam in the OF might be cleared up long before then.


Mosdef.

Of course, here's hoping it's cleared up because Marte and one of Sands/Snider/Tabata 'figure it out' and become starters or because another guy is brought in and not because Bell is called up to be 'the guy'. :lol:

In any event, in three years Bell may still be a 4th OFer or platoon guy (IF he develops at all). So, at least concerning shorter-term thinking, throwing him in a trade Grossman style isn't a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:57 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
The roster is far from elite, but the only place I feel like they should seek to improve is to look for a solid mid-rotation starter with at least 2 years of control left. Don't have names off the top of my head, but I'd do it if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell and a C prospect (Zack Dodson or something like that) or a package of Locke/McPherson + Kingham + a C+ prospect like Willy Garcia.

Otherwise, I think just continuing to improve and waiting for Marte, Polanco, Cole, Taillon, Locke, McPherson, Sanchez, and Hanson is the way to go. (All of those guys will start at AA or above except Hanson/Polanco who I think have the talent to move quickly and could be ready in 2015).

Sucks waiting more, but Cutch and Walker ain't going anywhere soon - Cutch is signed through '18 and Walker will be extended at some point - and those are the two true proven building blocks we have right now at the major league level.




I agree with your point of the Bucs needing to consider acquiring a 'mid-rotation' starter which is why I feel that should make an attempt to sign Brett Myers.

Not only would he not cost the Pirates any prospects, he's extremely versatile. He could fill a starting void until the youngsters are ready, then moving to the bullpen as a long or middle reliever.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Hughes won't make the bullpen?

I knew I was forgetting someone.

Seriously, I kept thinking to myself, "I thought the Pirates had another good R-handed reliever. No? Vin Mazzarro, I guess."

I also forgot about Clint Robinson, who seems like his hitting ability is too good to leave in AAA.

As to having 2 back-up MI'ers ... I very much prefer the prospect of a Clint Robinson or Jerry Sands pinch hitting than Ivan Dejesus or Jordy Mercer doing so.


As do I, my point was that the precedent is that the Pirates prefer to go with two bench guys capable of playing MI. Maybe now that they have a roster full of 4th outfielders that will change. Dunno.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:53 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Bell is at the very least three years away. My guess is that the logjam in the OF might be cleared up long before then.


Mosdef.

Of course, here's hoping it's cleared up because Marte and one of Sands/Snider/Tabata 'figure it out' and become starters or because another guy is brought in and not because Bell is called up to be 'the guy'. :lol:

In any event, in three years Bell may still be a 4th OFer or platoon guy (IF he develops at all). So, at least concerning shorter-term thinking, throwing him in a trade Grossman style isn't a bad idea.

It's a terrible idea. Grossman and Bell have nothing in common beyond the fact that bot are outfielders. Grossman was a 6th round draft choice. Bell was a ranked by the Pirates as a top 5 player, and I didn't see anybody who ranked him below the top 15. They gave him five times as much money as they gave Grossman. Bell has too much talent to be "thrown in" on a deal. You can trade him, but first he has to demonstrate that his knee is okay, and your return has to be top quality.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Stumbled upon this and immediately thought of this thread:

http://rumbunter.com/2013/01/07/pittsbu ... ro-really/

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 am 
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