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 Post subject: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:28 am 
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I think that the Pirates' 2013 25-man roster is pretty close to being set, with just a few spots subject to competition. I see the likely roster as being the following:

C
Martin
McKenry
1B
Jones
Sanchez
2B
Walker
SS
Barmes
Dejesus
3B
Alvarez
OF
Marte
McCutchen
Snider
Sands
Tabata

SP
Burnett
Rodriguez
McDonald
Liriano
McPherson
Locke
RP
Grilli
Melancon
Hughes
Watson
Morris
Wilson

The questions involve who is the 2nd left-hander out of the pen, who is the 5th starting pitcher, who handles the back-up MI spot, and who makes the roster out of the OF candidates.

I think Dejesus handles the backup MI spot since he can play both 2B and SS, Wilson is the second LH'er, and Locke makes the team as the 12th pitcher since the Pirates have a boatload of games in April. I also think Presley is sent down and Tabata is the 5th OF'er.

[Edited to add Hughes, replacing Mazzarro]


Last edited by Bucfan on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:30 am 
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Breaking it down like that makes me realize just how poor the roster is. I'm bracing for 74 wins.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:22 pm 
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While I have no idea what the true result will be, I see no reason why this team can't be better than last year, and break .500.

Bucfan's roster is thin at backup infielder. Between DeJesus, Harrison and Mercer, I think two will make the team.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Presley will probably never be a starting OF, not at least a productive one, but he is a good 4th OF. He would make a much better bench player than Tabata. Last thing I want to see is Tabata getting heavier, lazier, and getting a worse attitude sitting on the bench.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:16 pm 
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But Tabata has a big league contract and they have to give him another chance to earn it. Plus he is a logical complement to Snider.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm 
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The Pirates have almost always gone with 2 backup MI. Since Dejesus hasn't been able to hit since Tball, I suspect they go with Harrison (who they love) and Mercer. That means one of our many 4th OF's on your list has to go, or one of GFJ/Sanchez gets traded.

Unless we trade Tabata, he makes the team since he is out of options. That leads me to believe Sands starts in Indy unless there is a trade.

And I'm with IA Pirate- this lineup looks like a 74-win team.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Hughes won't make the bullpen?


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:23 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Hughes won't make the bullpen?

I knew I was forgetting someone.

Seriously, I kept thinking to myself, "I thought the Pirates had another good R-handed reliever. No? Vin Mazzarro, I guess."

I also forgot about Clint Robinson, who seems like his hitting ability is too good to leave in AAA.

As to having 2 back-up MI'ers ... I very much prefer the prospect of a Clint Robinson or Jerry Sands pinch hitting than Ivan Dejesus or Jordy Mercer doing so.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Looking at that roster, I don't think the Pirates can trade Garrett Jones. They need his lefty power in the lineup against right-handed starters. Other than Pedro, you don't have another proven power threat from that side of the plate.

Could this be the opening day lineup?

1 -- LF -- Starling Marte
2 -- 2B -- Neil Walker (S)
3 -- CF -- Andrew McCutchen
4 -- 1B -- Garrett Jones (L)
5 -- RF -- Jerry Sands
6 -- 3B -- Pedro Alvarez (L)
7 -- C -- Russell Martin
8 -- SS -- Clint Barmes
9 -- P -- A.J. Burnett


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Bucfan -- I have a feeling Mazzaro makes it and Locke begins the season in AAA. I believe the Bucs will stretch out Wilson as a starter and either use him in long relief or as a spot guy.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:58 pm 
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And let's be honest with ourselves. The Bucs' starting rotation is thin and includes some wild cards (i.e., James McDonald and Francisco Liriano).

For 2013, isn't the Cubs' rotation actually better? They have:

Jeff Samardzija
Edwin Jackson
Matt Garza
Travis Wood
Scott Baker / Scott Feldman

I know Garza and Baker are coming back from injuries, but they have a history of effectiveness pre-injury. It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:30 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


Even if you were 100% correct, you'd be wildly underselling how terrible the Cubs lineup is compared to the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:35 pm 
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What's the deal with DeJesus? I know very little about him other than that he's Rey Sanchez 2.0.

How many options does he have left (if any) and can he play 2B, SS AND 3B like Harrison/Mercer?

Depending on those factors, wouldn't Harrison and/or Mercer be better MIF options?

---

Also, there was an article I read that made a compelling case for trading GJ, not only because of the 1B/RF logjam, but because, as evidence by the Hammer trade, it's best to trade guys at their peak value and that time is now for Jones.

When you consider his age, the potential 'superfluous' position(s) that he fills and that he'll probably never be better than he was in 2012, it becomes pretty clear that trading Jones is the way to go...

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:38 am 
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The roster is far from elite, but the only place I feel like they should seek to improve is to look for a solid mid-rotation starter with at least 2 years of control left. Don't have names off the top of my head, but I'd do it if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell and a C prospect (Zack Dodson or something like that) or a package of Locke/McPherson + Kingham + a C+ prospect like Willy Garcia.

Otherwise, I think just continuing to improve and waiting for Marte, Polanco, Cole, Taillon, Locke, McPherson, Sanchez, and Hanson is the way to go. (All of those guys will start at AA or above except Hanson/Polanco who I think have the talent to move quickly and could be ready in 2015).

Sucks waiting more, but Cutch and Walker ain't going anywhere soon - Cutch is signed through '18 and Walker will be extended at some point - and those are the two true proven building blocks we have right now at the major league level.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:12 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
And let's be honest with ourselves. The Bucs' starting rotation is thin and includes some wild cards (i.e., James McDonald and Francisco Liriano).

For 2013, isn't the Cubs' rotation actually better? They have:

Jeff Samardzija
Edwin Jackson
Matt Garza
Travis Wood
Scott Baker / Scott Feldman

I know Garza and Baker are coming back from injuries, but they have a history of effectiveness pre-injury. It's possible that the Pirates' 2013 rotation is worse than that being trotted out by the 61-win Cubs. That's a little frightening when trying to predict the Pirates' 2013 win total and where they'll finish in the NL Central.


Yeah, I'd make the trade, but there is a lot more to a roster than just starters. The Cubs lineup and bullpen is terrible. The Brewers have the worst rotation in the division, but will have a good lineup. At any rate, we don't match up well with the Cards on paper and the Reds look pretty tough too. The Bucs won't compete without one of JMac or Liriano returning to top form. Also, don't forget we can add Cole/Taillon while the others (sans St.Louis) don't have anything close to that.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:26 pm 
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If Liriano gets anywhere near his top form, I'd feel really good about this team's chances of winning 82+ and competing for a playoff spot.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:17 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
If Liriano gets anywhere near his top form, I'd feel really good about this team's chances of winning 82+ and competing for a playoff spot.


Especially if Cole gets added for the 2nd half. It would be like making a trade without actually trading.


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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:49 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
What's the deal with DeJesus? I know very little about him other than that he's Rey Sanchez 2.0.


I just realized that I meant to say 'Rey Ordonez 2.0', so I wondered who the heck Rey Sanchez was and looked him up on BR.com.

To my delight, Rey Sanchez was also a slap-hitting, no offense 2B/SS.

What a Rey-lief! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:53 pm 
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McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
...if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell


Totally forgot about him! Good call.

Curious how he fits now with the logjam in OF, the departure of Grossman, and emergence of Polanco.

Also curious how other teams would guage his value after his injury.

---

One thing is for sure, even with all of this potential 'this is only a 7x win team club' talk:

The Pirates have a decent enough farm system where they could make a mid-season trade to acquire an impact player or two.

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 Post subject: Re: 25 Man Roster
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:54 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
McCutchenistheTruth wrote:
...if the Pirates could trade maybe Bell


Totally forgot about him! Good call.

Curious how he fits now with the logjam in OF, the departure of Grossman, and emergence of Polanco.

Also curious how other teams would guage his value after his injury.

---

One thing is for sure, even with all of this potential 'this is only a 7x win team club' talk:

The Pirates have a decent enough farm system where they could make a mid-season trade to acquire an impact player or two.

Bell is at the very least three years away. My guess is that the logjam in the OF might be cleared up long before then.

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