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 Post subject: So what's left?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Now that the JH trade is finalized the picture/puzzle of the 2013 Bucs has gotten a tad clearer.

The Pen is mostly set and there's a surplus of OF with plenty of 1B/RF [platoon] options.

Catcher is set and the Rotation has four capable-to-good guys with one wild card (Chaz-Mo) and three young guns eager to make a statement.

So what's left to be decided for this team to be a 'near finished product'?

Sign Kyle Loshe? Trade Garrett? Stand pat?

Do you see any move or moves which would alleviate any potential problem(s) this team might currently have?

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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:32 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Do you see any move or moves which would alleviate any potential problem(s) this team might currently have?

I think the Pirates have two needs, both longer term. Unfortunately, both needs are shared by almost every team in baseball and therefore are not subject to easy remedy. Those needs are:

    (1) Improve the SS options. Barmes, Mercer, Dejesus do not light my fire.
    (2) Get starting pitching for 2014 and beyond. Right now, it's Cole, Rodriguez, McDonald, Liriano, McPherson.

The draft is basically the only way to make significant improvement, since obtaining a top-tier SP'er or SS would be prohibitively expensive in terms of the talent needed to be dealt for such an upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:20 am 
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Marlins get: Starling Marte, Jamison Tailion, Alan Hanson, Jose Tabata, Kyle McPherson

Pirates get: Giancarlo Stanton, Ricky Nolasco, Logan Morrison


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:47 am 
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I still don't like the idea of trading Taillon but to see Stanton in a Pirates uniform I'd consider a whole lot. Him and Cutch in the same outfield would be a pleasure to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:28 am 
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JollyRoger wrote:
I still don't like the idea of trading Taillon but to see Stanton in a Pirates uniform I'd consider a whole lot. Him and Cutch in the same outfield would be a pleasure to watch.

That would be bold. Freaking BOLD.

I know J_C loves the idea. Putting Stanton in RF would give the Pirates four potential position players who are above league-average at their positions for offensive output (CF, RF, 2B and 3B). Further, Cole and Heredia are potential rotation foundation for years to come.

It would make the Pirates perhaps one player away from being a playoff team (either a lead-off batter who plays LF or a productive SS).


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:37 am 
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I would make that trade in a millisecond. Me thinks the Marlins would want a ton more...


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:08 am 
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I'd like to see the Bucs add, Brett Myers.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:38 am 
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rellimie wrote:
Marlins get: Starling Marte, Jamison Tailion, Alan Hanson, Jose Tabata, Kyle McPherson

Pirates get: Giancarlo Stanton, Ricky Nolasco, Logan Morrison

Add me to the list of people who would be pleased with that trade. Marte doesn't do anything for me yet, and Taillon, well, he's still in the minors and hasn't produced at this level. Given that we're weak at SS and catcher, and has been noted several times, we're not likely to be able to remedy those positions except through the draft, we need two things: more starting pitching and/or a big bat that will provide cover for Pedro. Stanton does the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:25 am 
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rellimie wrote:
Marlins get: Starling Marte, Jamison Tailion, Alan Hanson, Jose Tabata, Kyle McPherson

Pirates get: Giancarlo Stanton, Ricky Nolasco, Logan Morrison


Not interested. That's way too much to give up in any deal for Stanton's value. Let's say he's a 6 war player, a bar he hasn't reached but should. Four years of control equals about 25 WAR. He will be paid about $48 million in arbitration over his last three years of control. That is paying for about 8 WAR with money that could be spent elsewhere. That leaves 17 WAR of surplus value. You are trading 6+ years of Taillon and very good bet to be at least a MLB average SP, that alone is 15-20 WAR and we all know he can be much more. You are trading 6 years of Marte who looks like a lock to be at least a 3 WAR player based on elite defense, speed, and power. That's another 15-20 WAR. Then you give up a top 40 prospect in all of MLB at SS, plus Tabata and McPherson.

You can argue that you can trade Stanton later, but his value will be far less each year you keep him.

You are basically mortgaging multiple positions for one immediate fix. That is not the sustainable way to run a team in this fiscal system. This is not the TB blueprint. I highly doubt anyone here would be interested in doing this post-2013 when Marte is fully established and Cole/Taillon are both in Pittsburgh.

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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Back to reality, it wouldn't bother me a bit if Neil added another starting pitching option. And maybe another bullpen candidate or two. And I think he may need to trade one of these right-handed hitting first base options.

Otherwise I think we are set. I would keep Jones, and I wouldn't worry about shortstop for right now.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
rellimie wrote:
Marlins get: Starling Marte, Jamison Tailion, Alan Hanson, Jose Tabata, Kyle McPherson

Pirates get: Giancarlo Stanton, Ricky Nolasco, Logan Morrison


Not interested.


While that was a very good breakdown of your case, I still think it's crazy to outright say 'not interested'. Especially on the heels of a par-for-the course Hanrahan trade.

As unlikely as that trade is, getting both Nolasco and Morrison back in return for those six young 'uns is more than enough to offset any potential short falls in Stanton's WAR.

Of course, if you're trying to say, 'not interested... because the Pirates can do better and swindle the Phish just like the Jays did!', then I agree completely! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Back to reality, it wouldn't bother me a bit if Neil added another starting pitching option. And maybe another bullpen candidate or two. And I think he may need to trade one of these right-handed hitting first base options.

Otherwise I think we are set. I would keep Jones, and I wouldn't worry about shortstop for right now.


Other than the O's and maybe the M's, what other teams need a corner OF or 1B option like Jones?

It would be nice to land a Paxton for GJ, but BD is probably more accurate that the Bucs would be more likely to land one of the O's failed projects (Tillman, Britton, Arietta, etc.).

But that's basing projections only on two options... who else might be in the mix? Texas?

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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:01 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
rellimie wrote:
Marlins get: Starling Marte, Jamison Tailion, Alan Hanson, Jose Tabata, Kyle McPherson

Pirates get: Giancarlo Stanton, Ricky Nolasco, Logan Morrison


Not interested.


While that was a very good breakdown of your case, I still think it's crazy to outright say 'not interested'. Especially on the heels of a par-for-the course Hanrahan trade.

As unlikely as that trade is, getting both Nolasco and Morrison back in return for those six young 'uns is more than enough to offset any potential short falls in Stanton's WAR.

Of course, if you're trying to say, 'not interested... because the Pirates can do better and swindle the Phish just like the Jays did!', then I agree completely! :lol:


Yeah, I'd be interested in Stanton, but not at the price tag suggested. At this point Morrison is a bust and I have zero interest in Nolasco and his $11.5 million salary.

Reality is that they will keep Stanton this year since he is cheap in order to fake an attempt at winning. They will then trade him next winter when he gets $10 million plus in arbitration.

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 Post subject: Re: So what's left?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
At this point Morrison is a bust


Yeah, he is the Marlins Jose Tabata.

Of course, even despite his 'underwhelming production compared to potential', he's shown more use/value than Tabata.

He's also paid less.

As such, in a vacuum trade, I'd swap them in a heartbeat.

That aside, I agree with you that Stanton isn't going anywhere this year.

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