Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:24 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: SS Moves
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:02 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5613
Stephen Drew to the Red Sox for $9.5 M (up to $10 M with incentives).
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/i ... al-sources

Nakajima to the A's, Drew's former crew, for only $6.5 M over 2 years.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/87592 ... -year-deal

Opinions?

Does anyone else think that this could prove to be a pretty savvy move by the A's?

They've turned Cliff Pennington and a spare A+ part into Chris Young and let Drew walk for a [url]veteran, former NPB MVP[/url], SS for only 2/3 the price.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:15 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:44 am
Posts: 88
I like Drew but not at that price.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:41 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:42 pm
Posts: 910
Rotten_Scoundrel wrote:
I like Drew but not at that price.


Makes the Barmes contract reasonable.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:46 am
Posts: 429
Location: Rural Ridge, PA
I am hoping we make a run at Aledmys Diaz when he turns 23 years old on January 8th. Sadly, the management team will probably not want to spend that kind of money, though.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
urbanexplorer wrote:
I am hoping we make a run at Aledmys Diaz when he turns 23 years old on January 8th. Sadly, the management team will probably not want to spend that kind of money, though.


Not a bad idea, but I imagine the Dodgers or Cubs will massively overpay. That has been the norm for older Cuban talent since the new rules went into effect. They should have signed Hechavarria when he was available in 2010, he only got 4 years at $10 million.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
So, Dee Gordon or Jose Iglesias? Gordon at least can run, but neither guy can hit. UZR hates Gordon's D so, but all reports on Iglesias are that he is a whiz in the field. Neither guy does much for me.

I'd still rather see us get Porcello.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
Dee Gordon cannot hit. Did some research on (*ahem*) another site and noted the following as to Gordon:

Hitters like Gordon have offensive production driven 100% by batting average, given their awful ISO and low walk rates. Hitters who base offensive production on BA (meaning OBP 50 points or less above BA, and ISO below 80) are the worst offensive producers. The list includes guys like Ben Revere, Jamey Carroll, Ruben Tejeda, and Juan Pierre.

Ranking all players 24 or younger in 2012, and with at least 200 plate appearances, 35 players are ranked.

Gordon ranked 34th in ISO, 33rd in RC/27 outs, 32nd in BA, 32nd in OBP, 35th in slugging, and 35th in OPS.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/ ... /minpa/200

Not good, compared to his peers or those younger.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:58 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 174
Location: smyrna delaware
you noted ben revere in that list the philliues just traded vance worley for him, and juan peirre has always found a job, it seems to me no pwer all speed guys have some value, add that gorden is at a premium position like SS, if he could play a solid SS and be a terror on the bases when he does get on he could be usefull until we found something better


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
pirate1218 wrote:
you noted ben revere in that list the philliues just traded vance worley for him, and juan peirre has always found a job, it seems to me no pwer all speed guys have some value, add that gorden is at a premium position like SS, if he could play a solid SS and be a terror on the bases when he does get on he could be usefull until we found something better

I am basing my comments on value upon performance, not because a GM signed or traded for a guy.

If the fact that a GM obtains a player is evidence that the player has value, no matter the actual peformance, then are we not precluded from criticizing player moves? By force of logic, a GM obtained the player, and per your analysis, the player has value, so the move is justified.

I posit that we look at the relative value of who is obtained and who is released or traded, based upon past performance. That is the best way to evaluate personnel moves.

Therefore, the fact that Dee Gordon was the worst - not ONE of the worst, but the ABSOLUTE WORST - hitter among all players aged 24 and younger in MLB in 2012 with 200 plate appearances or more is a fact.

Further, positing improvement is fine, if based on particular circumstances - a move by a pitcher from the AL to the NL, a move to a pitcher-friendlier park, a lefty at PNC, for example.

Finally, last year, Gordon posted a -1.2 WAR. The Dodgers would have been better off getting a journeyman from AAA and getting true replacement production (0 WAR) than playing Gordon.

I hope that the Pirates get a better player than a guy who is below replacement.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:44 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 174
Location: smyrna delaware
i am not a huge believer in some of those formulas, my point was that guys like gorden keeps finding jobs, they must have some value or teams would not keep using them. If gordan can get on base at the same rate as barmes did last season ( which won't be hard to do) his speed will create runs when he does get on base. I am not saying he is a future all star, but it's not like we have a bunch of talent at SS either . His speed could be a huge assett, even as the back up SS late game pinch running situations. That speed will win you a few games over the course of a season


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
pirate1218 wrote:
i am not a huge believer in some of those formulas

The problem for Gordon is that no statistic or formula suggests he was good in 2012. More to the point, the statistics show he was awful last year.

pirate1218 wrote:
I am not saying he is a future all star, but it's not like we have a bunch of talent at SS either . His speed could be a huge assett, even as the back up SS late game pinch running situations. That speed will win you a few games over the course of a season

I would have no disagreement with signing Gordon as a player released by the Dodgers and giving him time in AAA to see if he can learn to get on base.

But we are talking about trading Hanrahan - a very good relief pitcher with a proven track record with the Pirates since coming over in trade (229 IP, just 177 H's allowed, 98 BB, 265 K's, 1.18 WHIP, 82 saves) - for Gordon.

That is the source of my displeasure. Gordon is not good enough - not remotely good enough.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:06 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 174
Location: smyrna delaware
gordan for hannrahan of course isn't fair, but neither is some of the names i am hearing from boston, at least gordans speed is usefull


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
pirate1218 wrote:
gordan for hannrahan of course isn't fair, but neither is some of the names i am hearing from boston, at least gordans speed is usefull


Not if he can't hit or field.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: SS Moves
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
pirate1218 wrote:
i am not a huge believer in some of those formulas, my point was that guys like gorden keeps finding jobs, they must have some value or teams would not keep using them. If gordan can get on base at the same rate as barmes did last season ( which won't be hard to do) his speed will create runs when he does get on base. I am not saying he is a future all star, but it's not like we have a bunch of talent at SS either . His speed could be a huge assett, even as the back up SS late game pinch running situations. That speed will win you a few games over the course of a season

Merely believing it does not make it so. Gordon, with all his speed, has failed to create enough runs for the Dodgers to deem him worth keeping, and the Dodgers had a horrific offense last season. Even the Dodgers have recognized that speed is not an important skill to have on offense. As they say, you can't steal first base.

I don't see how Gordon would help except as a bench player. Barmes was excellent with the glove last year, and he could at least hit more than 1 HR every 200 plate appearances.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits