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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:11 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Looks to me like Dejan does. His column comparing Huntington's drafts to Littlefield's was a pathetic example of comparing apples to oranges. He can't let go of the hoka hey garbage, which nobody cares about. You can't make any sort of positive comment concerning the Pirates on his blog without risking ridicule from Dejan. It's getting to the point where I have a hard time taking anything that he writes about the Pirates seriously.



Nothing these guys do should be compared to Littlefield. If that is the bar, then we are in big trouble.

People do care about the hoka hey garbage...apparently all over baseball.

Who? And among Pirate fans, how many have jumped ship over it? All of the people I hear squawking about it are the same people who squawk about every move the Pirates make.

I jumped ship... well, in terms of respecting the Huntington regime. I'm ready for the transition to the next management group...


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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:01 pm 
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val wrote:
I jumped ship... well, in terms of respecting the Huntington regime. I'm ready for the transition to the next management group...

You jumped ship over off season training methods? Really?

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:04 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
val wrote:
I jumped ship... well, in terms of respecting the Huntington regime. I'm ready for the transition to the next management group...

You jumped ship over off season training methods? Really?

Umm, it wasn't off-season. The weekend so noted was in late June.

For the record, I don't have a problem with giving the youngsters the advanced-outward-bound experience. In theory. It's just that it seemed so ill-managed and was indicative of other problems. Like having Polanco doing stolen base drills at 6:00 am with overweight coaches tending second base. And, just from a very casual observer, it's seemed like our team fundamentals have been weak for years and years, and we read that many in baseball find our minor league preparation to be almost criminally incompetent. And after reading Starke's email, he certainly seems incompetent to me. I fully admit to being relatively ignorant about the team. A year ago, I had no idea who Kyle Starke was. I don't think about the minors. Except that I do now, and it scares me.

Some teams are remarkably well run. And some teams aren't. We're in the latter category...


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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:52 am 
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DK really comes across like a fool in his blog toady. He's trying to pit Nutting against management over Hoka Hey. He refuses to see that there is plenty of grey area in the statements made by Nutting about the future directions taken. Apparently, DK wanted Pirate Fest to be about Hoka Hey and nothing else and he can't fathom why management didn't grovel on their knees for forgiveness. Give it up, no one cares, it wasn't a big deal when it happened and it certainly isn't now.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:38 pm 
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I want to see if I'm following the sequence of events correctly . . .

On Thursday, December 13th, Kovacevic writes a column in which he challenges readers to add a little "extra pepper" at FanFast and all but dares his readers to ask a number of questions, including the following:

For Coonelly: Now that Bob Nutting has ordered a halt to your year-round military practices in the minors, saying he wants this to be a baseball team and not a “boot camp,” do you now — at least publicly — support his stance?

Or will you continue to say, as you did in an interview last month with an Altoona radio station — after Nutting‘s order — that the criticism of your training methods was “overblown?”

Was the franchise owner‘s criticism overblown?


See: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... z2FK2evXAb

And, not shockingly, on Saturday, December 15th, an attendee at FanFest chose to ask a question that tracked very closely to what Kovacevic penned above. See: http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/3142 ... z2FK2evXAb

So, today, in his blog, Kovacevic appears to be incredulous that this issue keeps coming up and appears to be flabbergasted. He writes:

It’s amazing, really. This story should have died the day Nutting spoke those words. I know it certainly died in my mind. But Coonelly and Huntington keep bringing it up again and again and again, as if they’re more determined to show everyone that they and Kyle Stark were right than, you know, doing what the boss wants and, you know, keeping their jobs.

What a franchise.


http://blog.triblive.com/dejan-kovacevi ... nt-office/

So . . . in other words, Kovacevic dared his readers to challenge Pirate management on issue and, when they did, he was ready to jump in and criticize management for "not letting the story die." Notably, not a single season ticket holder brought up the issue on Friday and neither Huntington nor Coonelly raised the issue. It was only after some hero with the courage to utter "Hoka Hey" as he walked away from the microphone (probably an internet "tough guy") that the issue was addressed by Huntington. Hmmmm . . . let me guess, if they had answered "Bob Nutting has spoken, he's set the story straight, we've got nothing further to add" . . . how would have that been received?

You wonder why there are some who question motives? This would be a very good Exhibit.

BTW, Jason Grilli apparently left money on the table to stay a Pirate and FanFest generated record numbers. So much for Hoka Hey . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Yeah! Heck with Hoka Hey, we got big numbers at PirateFest AND Jason Grilli resigned!!! Woohoo who cares about those late season collapses, and piss poor player development!

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Yeah! Heck with Hoka Hey, we got big numbers at PirateFest AND Jason Grilli resigned!!! Woohoo who cares about those late season collapses, and piss poor player development!


No, we do actually care about collapses and player development, not this Hoka Hey nonsense, try reading comprehension.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:34 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
BTW, Jason Grilli apparently left money on the table to stay a Pirate and FanFest generated record numbers. So much for Hoka Hey . . .

And Edwin Jackson took less to go elsewhere last year. What's your point?

I'm sure Piratefest is fun, and if I lived closer would probably go. But people go to Piratefest for similar reasons they fill up the park on fireworks nights. Please tell me you aren't trying to prove your point by bringing up record crowds at fire..er, I mean Piratefest.

The guys running our minor league system have zero baseball teaching experience, but are described by NH as very intelligent guys. They constantly send guys through the system with limited developmental skills. They do however run a militaristic type of program highlighted by Hoka Hey(which was a big enough deal to draw the ire of the owner). Yea, they are really intelligent. Give me some dumb baseball guys any day...

As for the DK part, I agree he is beating the heck out of the dead horse. Doesn't mean I don't agree with his points though...


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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Perhaps the most humorous point about today's blog is that Kovacevic writes that Huntington and Coonelly keep bringing it up as if they want to prove that they were right instead of moving on.

Really? Seriously?

Huntington and Coonelly keep bringing it up because they want to prove that they were right?

Pot meet kettle.

I think that a certain other person won't let it die because (a) he made a huge deal out of it; (b) others demonstrated the inaccuracy of some of the so-called facts; (c) that person's focus shifted quickly from the SEAL training to Hoka Hey and (d) much to someone's chagrin, he didn't lead the way in getting a bunch of people fired.

Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:03 pm 
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val wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
val wrote:
I jumped ship... well, in terms of respecting the Huntington regime. I'm ready for the transition to the next management group...

You jumped ship over off season training methods? Really?

Umm, it wasn't off-season. The weekend so noted was in late June.

I'm not claiming to have seen all of the coverage, but I was under the impression that this stuff happened in September.

Quote:
For the record, I don't have a problem with giving the youngsters the advanced-outward-bound experience. In theory. It's just that it seemed so ill-managed and was indicative of other problems. Like having Polanco doing stolen base drills at 6:00 am with overweight coaches tending second base.

Was it ill managed because the drills were in the early morning, or merely because the coaches were fat?

Quote:
And, just from a very casual observer, it's seemed like our team fundamentals have been weak for years and years, and we read that many in baseball find our minor league preparation to be almost criminally incompetent.

Not that long ago, many in baseball thought that Billy Beane was incompetent. In the 1970's everybody in baseball knew that weightlifting was bad for baseball players. Baseball is the most conservative institution I've ever seen. Not just resistant to change, but actively hostile to change.

I agree with you about the fundamentals, though. Pathetic.

Quote:
And after reading Starke's email, he certainly seems incompetent to me. I fully admit to being relatively ignorant about the team. A year ago, I had no idea who Kyle Starke was. I don't think about the minors. Except that I do now, and it scares me.

Some teams are remarkably well run. And some teams aren't. We're in the latter category...

Yet somehow they managed to improve their win total by 22 games over the last two seasons, and put up their best record since 1997.

As I've said elsewhere, there is definitely a case to be made against the current administration. It doesn't involve Seal-type training, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:07 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
BTW, Jason Grilli apparently left money on the table to stay a Pirate and FanFest generated record numbers. So much for Hoka Hey . . .

And Edwin Jackson took less to go elsewhere last year. What's your point?

I'm sure Piratefest is fun, and if I lived closer would probably go. But people go to Piratefest for similar reasons they fill up the park on fireworks nights. Please tell me you aren't trying to prove your point by bringing up record crowds at fire..er, I mean Piratefest.

The guys running our minor league system have zero baseball teaching experience, but are described by NH as very intelligent guys. They constantly send guys through the system with limited developmental skills. They do however run a militaristic type of program highlighted by Hoka Hey(which was a big enough deal to draw the ire of the owner). Yea, they are really intelligent. Give me some dumb baseball guys any day...

As for the DK part, I agree he is beating the heck out of the dead horse. Doesn't mean I don't agree with his points though...

Speaking of beating a dead horse, the Pirates manage to get quite a few butts in seats when they aren't shooting off fireworks nowadays. Get a new stick.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:14 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
BTW, Jason Grilli apparently left money on the table to stay a Pirate and FanFest generated record numbers. So much for Hoka Hey . . .

And Edwin Jackson took less to go elsewhere last year. What's your point?

I'm sure Piratefest is fun, and if I lived closer would probably go. But people go to Piratefest for similar reasons they fill up the park on fireworks nights. Please tell me you aren't trying to prove your point by bringing up record crowds at fire..er, I mean Piratefest.

The guys running our minor league system have zero baseball teaching experience, but are described by NH as very intelligent guys. They constantly send guys through the system with limited developmental skills. They do however run a militaristic type of program highlighted by Hoka Hey(which was a big enough deal to draw the ire of the owner). Yea, they are really intelligent. Give me some dumb baseball guys any day...

As for the DK part, I agree he is beating the heck out of the dead horse. Doesn't mean I don't agree with his points though...

Speaking of beating a dead horse, the Pirates manage to get quite a few butts in seats when they aren't shooting off fireworks nowadays. Get a new stick.

Why not read all of the posts to gain the context. No. 9 was using a full house at Piratefest to make a point of how well the Pirates are doing. I'm equating Piratefest to fireworks nights in that they are fan friendly events that draw the diehard fan as well as many casual fans looking for freebies, photo ops with players, and autographs. It's a great event, but just shouldn't be used as proof that the Pirates are going great guns, IMO. Don't know that I've ever posted here about fireworks...EVER...so it sure isn't my "shtick"...but nice try, thanks for playing along! Sorry my opinion doesn't line up with yours...I know that means I"M WRONG!


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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:09 am 
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Parrot -
My point was not that attendance is indicative that the Pirates are doing great. My point is that people aren't buying the Hoka Hey vitriol. Looks like a non-issue to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Dejan's Column Today
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:44 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Why not read all of the posts to gain the context. No. 9 was using a full house at Piratefest to make a point of how well the Pirates are doing. I'm equating Piratefest to fireworks nights in that they are fan friendly events that draw the diehard fan as well as many casual fans looking for freebies, photo ops with players, and autographs. It's a great event, but just shouldn't be used as proof that the Pirates are going great guns, IMO. Don't know that I've ever posted here about fireworks...EVER...so it sure isn't my "shtick"...but nice try, thanks for playing along! Sorry my opinion doesn't line up with yours...I know that means I"M WRONG!

I did read all of the posts. The Pirates increasing attendance at ballgames is proof enough that they're pleasing fans more every year. Increasing attendance at Piratefest is also in indicator that interest in the Pirates is increasing, special event or no, because it is an annual event that provides pretty much the same attractions from year to year.

I really don't care whether or not your opinion lines up with mine, because when more people show up for the Pirates, in whatever context, that indicates that interest in them is increasing. That isn't my opinion, though, it's a fact.

I didn't say "schtick" I said "stick", as in to beat them with.

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