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 Post subject: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Joel Hanrahan for Michael Morse.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:44 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Joel Hanrahan for Michael Morse.

Thoughts?


No, Morse can't play the field, he is a DH that doesn't hit well enough to make up for his deficiencies. At 31 with his Roid enhanced 6'5 250 build he's an AL player.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:55 pm 
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No. But I'm in the minority here in that I'm not looking to move Hanrahan on for anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:04 pm 
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How about these trades?

Starling Marte and Jameson Taillon for Elvis Andrus.

OR

Joel Hanrahan and Travis Snider for Jason Kubel.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:32 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
How about these trades?

Starling Marte and Jameson Taillon for Elvis Andrus.

OR

Joel Hanrahan and Travis Snider for Jason Kubel.


Big No on #1, Andrus has 2 years left before free agency. Andrus is a 4 WAR guy, Marte will be awfully close to that for the next 6 years.

No on #2, but I can see the rationale here. Kubel is a poor defender and good bat who is owed $7.5 million in 2013 and a option for $7.5 million in 2014. My main reason for a no is my belief if Tabata and Snider. I think these guys can match Kubel's production (2 WAR). I would want a SP or younger bat for Hanrahan.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Kubel's a lefty who hit 30 HRs last year and has OBPs of .327 and .332 the last two years. I don't think Snider or Tabata touch those numbers. I'd love to see Kubel in RF at PNC. Big upgrade offensively, and with Cutch and Marte in CF and LF, it's not like the overall outfield defense will be bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:07 pm 
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My trade #1 is predicated on signing Andrus to a long-term extension. I believe he's a star-level player at SS and he GETS ON BASE (OBP over .340 each of the last two years). He's also only 24 years old.

I like Marte, but your projection is optimistic and relies quite a bit on defense. I'd rather have a known star at SS than a maybe star at a corner outfield position who gets a lot of his value from defense. It's just easier to find corner outfield guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Let's say both of my proposed trades went down. Here's the opening day lineup in 2013:

1 -- SS -- Elvis Andrus
2 -- 2B -- Neil Walker (S)
3 -- CF -- Andrew McCutchen
4 -- RF -- Jason Kubel (L)
5 -- 1B -- Garrett Jones (L)
6 -- C -- Russell Martin
7 -- 3B -- Pedro Alvarez (L)
8 -- LF -- Jose Tabata

No black holes! Power potential from 2 through 7! Speed and on-base skills in the lead-off spot! Solid clean-up hitter! Threats in the lower part of the lineup!

I know trading Marte, Taillon, Hanrahan and Snider sounds like a lot, but both Andrus and Kubel would be with the team through at least 2014, and the team could put a full court press on Andrus to sign him long-term.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:22 pm 
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A full-court press isn't certain enough to convince me, but I do like that lineup you've assembled.

However, I don't think I'd want to give up Marte and Taillon for it. I don't care what they get for Hanrahan, I don't think he's very important. Snider I could go either way depending on the return.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:00 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Kubel's a lefty who hit 30 HRs last year and has OBPs of .327 and .332 the last two years. I don't think Snider or Tabata touch those numbers. I'd love to see Kubel in RF at PNC. Big upgrade offensively, and with Cutch and Marte in CF and LF, it's not like the overall outfield defense will be bad.


There's more to the game than HR and an average OBP at best. Kubel's power breakout came at a great hitter's park. He really isn't a very good player, average at best. Like I said, I can see your point, but I don't want to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:01 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
My trade #1 is predicated on signing Andrus to a long-term extension. I believe he's a star-level player at SS and he GETS ON BASE (OBP over .340 each of the last two years). He's also only 24 years old.

I like Marte, but your projection is optimistic and relies quite a bit on defense. I'd rather have a known star at SS than a maybe star at a corner outfield position who gets a lot of his value from defense. It's just easier to find corner outfield guys.


Where pray tell do you plan on getting the $100 million to sign Andrus?

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
My trade #1 is predicated on signing Andrus to a long-term extension. I believe he's a star-level player at SS and he GETS ON BASE (OBP over .340 each of the last two years). He's also only 24 years old.

I like Marte, but your projection is optimistic and relies quite a bit on defense. I'd rather have a known star at SS than a maybe star at a corner outfield position who gets a lot of his value from defense. It's just easier to find corner outfield guys.


Where pray tell do you plan on getting the $100 million to sign Andrus?


More revenue from MLB cable deal, increasing ticket sales, etc. It's not like Andrus would be getting $100 million all in one year. Do you think the Pirates are incapable of paying someone a fairly large contract? If Milwaukee can do it, Pittsburgh can do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:08 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Joel Hanrahan for Michael Morse.


No.

J_C_Steel wrote:
How about these trades?

Starling Marte and Jameson Taillon for Elvis Andrus.

OR

Joel Hanrahan and Travis Snider for Jason Kubel.


NO and no.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:36 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Kubel's a lefty who hit 30 HRs last year and has OBPs of .327 and .332 the last two years. I don't think Snider or Tabata touch those numbers. I'd love to see Kubel in RF at PNC. Big upgrade offensively, and with Cutch and Marte in CF and LF, it's not like the overall outfield defense will be bad.


You already have two 30 HR guys in the lineup, and a mid 20's guy if Jones stays, and another potential 20HR guy in Marte if/when he developes. BIGGER ISSUE is leadoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:59 am 
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rellimie wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Kubel's a lefty who hit 30 HRs last year and has OBPs of .327 and .332 the last two years. I don't think Snider or Tabata touch those numbers. I'd love to see Kubel in RF at PNC. Big upgrade offensively, and with Cutch and Marte in CF and LF, it's not like the overall outfield defense will be bad.


You already have two 30 HR guys in the lineup, and a mid 20's guy if Jones stays, and another potential 20HR guy in Marte if/when he developes. BIGGER ISSUE is leadoff.


Biggest issue is obp in general.

Btw, did anyone see the reference that Clint Hurdle wants to use Russell Martin in the #2 spot in the lineup? I'm not sure this guy understands the point of baseball. Maybe Barmes can lead off.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:16 am 
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BBF wrote:
rellimie wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Kubel's a lefty who hit 30 HRs last year and has OBPs of .327 and .332 the last two years. I don't think Snider or Tabata touch those numbers. I'd love to see Kubel in RF at PNC. Big upgrade offensively, and with Cutch and Marte in CF and LF, it's not like the overall outfield defense will be bad.


You already have two 30 HR guys in the lineup, and a mid 20's guy if Jones stays, and another potential 20HR guy in Marte if/when he developes. BIGGER ISSUE is leadoff.


Biggest issue is obp in general.

Btw, did anyone see the reference that Clint Hurdle wants to use Russell Martin in the #2 spot in the lineup? I'm not sure this guy understands the point of baseball. Maybe Barmes can lead off.


Well if he is basing his lineup on OBP then he will be at the top. (Compared to the rest of this team).


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:23 am 
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Even Pedro OBP-ed higher than Martin last year. Martin should bat 10th.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:35 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
My trade #1 is predicated on signing Andrus to a long-term extension. I believe he's a star-level player at SS and he GETS ON BASE (OBP over .340 each of the last two years). He's also only 24 years old.

I like Marte, but your projection is optimistic and relies quite a bit on defense. I'd rather have a known star at SS than a maybe star at a corner outfield position who gets a lot of his value from defense. It's just easier to find corner outfield guys.


Where pray tell do you plan on getting the $100 million to sign Andrus?


More revenue from MLB cable deal, increasing ticket sales, etc. It's not like Andrus would be getting $100 million all in one year. Do you think the Pirates are incapable of paying someone a fairly large contract? If Milwaukee can do it, Pittsburgh can do it.


I don't believe we can or will do it. Milwaukee has done it once for one of the best 5 players in the game (5yrs, $105 million) and we know their revenue stream is well above ours based on late-2000's leaked numbers.

Andrus certainly will get $100+ million, Reyes got $106 million entering his 29 year old season, Elvis will be a free agent at age 26.

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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:21 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
How about these trades?

Starling Marte and Jameson Taillon for Elvis Andrus.

OR

Joel Hanrahan and Travis Snider for Jason Kubel.


NO and no.


I don't understand people being against trading Marte/Taillon for Andrus. Elvis Andrus is a 24-year-old shortstop star who gets on base, runs well, and plays good defense. He's a PERFECT lead-off hitter for the Pirates. Trading for him and signing him to a long-term deal turns a huge weakness into a big-time strength. If he could be added for two prospects, one of which is a corner outfielder, the Bucs should do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Would you make this trade?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
I don't believe we can or will do it. Milwaukee has done it once for one of the best 5 players in the game (5yrs, $105 million) and we know their revenue stream is well above ours based on late-2000's leaked numbers.

Andrus certainly will get $100+ million, Reyes got $106 million entering his 29 year old season, Elvis will be a free agent at age 26.


Given how affordable Cutch is for the life of his contract, the Pirates can sign a position player to a big-time contract. Elvis Andrus would be a prime candidate for that, as he's a PERFECT lead-off hitter who turns a huge team weakness, shortstop, into a big-time team strength.


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