Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:57 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:15 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 5117
Location: Washington, DC
Side Note: I can't be objective about Chris Capuano. I went to college with the guy.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:34 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5639
J_C_Steel wrote:
The thing is, even if a SP is signed or traded for, that doesn't change the fact that Karstens represents solid value for $3.8 million. With the uncertainties surrounding James McDonald and the pure question marks represented by Jeff Locke and Kyle McPherson, Jeff Karstens was a known commodity who could provide 120-150 innings of solid work.


Yes, it is a tad puzzling.

Plus, isn't Van De Hurk still on the roster? If so, WTF?!

Granted, this move almost certainly means another SP will be added (which is a must and a great thing).

This non-tender decision will have to be looked back upon when the dust settles on this offseason.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:36 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5639
Also, RE: Capuano:

Isn't he a tad long in the tooth? Didn't he have multiple arm surgeries? Isn't he just 'breaking out' after years of being a mid-rotation at best guy?

Hammer has issues, sure, but he's worth more than a journeyman SP.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:40 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Barrys Dopers wrote:
BBF wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
OK more news (maybe) - Hanrahan to LA for Capuano as a structure is being discussed. If we get Capuano and a prospect I'm on board. Chris is signed for $6 million in 2013 and a $8 million mutual option for 2014. That would upgrade over Karstens. I wonder why NH couldn't find any trade partners to move Karstens as a cheap back end SP.


After watching capuano all year, please, no. Please please please no.

His stats are solid, but I'm not buying in on him. If that's the best we can get for hanrahan, I might just be done with the bucs.


Really, please elaborate. I've liked Capuano for years, what's the beef?


I've liked him too (drafted him last year in NL only league, you'll remember). But:

1. He's aging.
2. He's the definition of average these days.
3. He's a one year rental.

As for what I've seen, I've seen a pitcher give up a ton of long flyballs, and benefit from playing most of his games in Dodger Stadium, PETCO, and SF. Not sure if that is supported by his numbers (HR/FB, etc.) or not, just what I've seen from watching a ton of his starts this year. If he moves to Pittsburgh, I'd expect an ERA north of 4.5- which is right around where it was the previous year with the Mets. In fact, a few of my Dodger fan friends viewed him as an LA-Karstens. Of course, he had a higher K rate, but I think there are some similarities.

And for $6M- that's what we're going to trade our most valuable trading chip for?

No thanks.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:30 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2172
BBF wrote:

I've liked him too (drafted him last year in NL only league, you'll remember). But:

1. He's aging.
2. He's the definition of average these days.
3. He's a one year rental.

As for what I've seen, I've seen a pitcher give up a ton of long flyballs, and benefit from playing most of his games in Dodger Stadium, PETCO, and SF. Not sure if that is supported by his numbers (HR/FB, etc.) or not, just what I've seen from watching a ton of his starts this year. If he moves to Pittsburgh, I'd expect an ERA north of 4.5- which is right around where it was the previous year with the Mets. In fact, a few of my Dodger fan friends viewed him as an LA-Karstens. Of course, he had a higher K rate, but I think there are some similarities.

And for $6M- that's what we're going to trade our most valuable trading chip for?

No thanks.

This is what I feared with trading Hanrahan. He isn't viewed as highly as we think. LA would be looking at him as a 7th inning guy, not a closer or even a true set up man. I'm not a fan of Capuano either, but he may be the type of guy we can expect in return for Hanrahan. Again though I don't get the team's logic. Let Karstens go and trade for Capuano. Is that not a wash as far as on field performance, while costing more money and losing one of your few trade chips? Eh....why question the logic of a successful guy like Huntington???


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 4983
Location: Omaha, NE via Sioux City, Kansas City, and Chicago
PirateParrot wrote:
This is what I feared with trading Hanrahan. He isn't viewed as highly as we think. LA would be looking at him as a 7th inning guy, not a closer or even a true set up man. I'm not a fan of Capuano either, but he may be the type of guy we can expect in return for Hanrahan. Again though I don't get the team's logic.


If this is the net gain in a trade, keep him. Seriously, I'd rather lose Hammer to free agency than pick up more journeyman garbage.

_________________
Iowa State Cyclones (2-4) at Texas Longhorns (2-4)
Darrell K Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium
October 18, 2014
7:00 PM


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5440
Location: Pittsburgh
J_C_Steel wrote:
Dumb move. Karstens for 120-150 innings is well worth the $3.8 million he would have received. Letting him go for nothing is just dumb.

He's only managed that in half of his professional seasons.

That being said, I would have tendered him. I have a feeling that the Bucs spent too much time focusing on his weaknesses at the expense of seeing how they could take advantage of his strengths. That's something that has happened here for a long time, no matter who was in charge.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7275
Maybe they are putting a ton of faith in that Cole and Taillon will be in the rotation for a majority of next season? Maybe one of them gets a chance to start the year in the rotation out of Spring Training?

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7275
Maybe the Giants would be interested in Hanrahan? They let Brian Wilson go into the Free Agent Market...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5440
Location: Pittsburgh
nad69dan wrote:
Maybe they are putting a ton of faith in that Cole and Taillon will be in the rotation for a majority of next season? Maybe one of them gets a chance to start the year in the rotation out of Spring Training?

They have plenty of rotation options, but I would have kept Karstens as insurance. Sometimes rookies don't work out, and guys do get hurt.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
Some others non-tendered - John Lannan, Mike Pelfrey, Jair Jurrjens.

Add those to the affordable SP options and I'll wait and see before judging this move. If we get an upgrade/lateral replacement that is more durable then it makes sense.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:06 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 5117
Location: Washington, DC
If the Pirates signed John Lannan for between $3 and 5 million for 1 year and traded a reasonable package to the Mets for R.A. Dickey, then the rotation could look like this:

1 -- R.A. Dickey
2 -- A.J. Burnett
3 -- Wandy Rodriguez
4 -- James McDonald
5 -- John Lannan
6/7 -- Kyle McPherson, Jeff Locke

Potentially, that rotation could contend.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
J_C_Steel wrote:
If the Pirates signed John Lannan for between $3 and 5 million for 1 year and traded a reasonable package to the Mets for R.A. Dickey, then the rotation could look like this:

1 -- R.A. Dickey
2 -- A.J. Burnett
3 -- Wandy Rodriguez
4 -- James McDonald
5 -- John Lannan
6/7 -- Kyle McPherson, Jeff Locke

Potentially, that rotation could contend.


Sure could, but at what cost for RA? I think the Mets are going to want 1 high end prospect for that 1 year of service. The got Zach Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran a few years ago.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 5117
Location: Washington, DC
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If the Pirates signed John Lannan for between $3 and 5 million for 1 year and traded a reasonable package to the Mets for R.A. Dickey, then the rotation could look like this:

1 -- R.A. Dickey
2 -- A.J. Burnett
3 -- Wandy Rodriguez
4 -- James McDonald
5 -- John Lannan
6/7 -- Kyle McPherson, Jeff Locke

Potentially, that rotation could contend.


Sure could, but at what cost for RA? I think the Mets are going to want 1 high end prospect for that 1 year of service. The got Zach Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran a few years ago.


Eh. They know they're not going to get a top-5 prospect. And there are some guys in the bottom half of the Pirates' top 10 prospect list that I could certainly part with to get R.A. Dickey to Pittsburgh. He could always end up re-signing, remember.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If the Pirates signed John Lannan for between $3 and 5 million for 1 year and traded a reasonable package to the Mets for R.A. Dickey, then the rotation could look like this:

1 -- R.A. Dickey
2 -- A.J. Burnett
3 -- Wandy Rodriguez
4 -- James McDonald
5 -- John Lannan
6/7 -- Kyle McPherson, Jeff Locke

Potentially, that rotation could contend.


Sure could, but at what cost for RA? I think the Mets are going to want 1 high end prospect for that 1 year of service. The got Zach Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran a few years ago.


Eh. They know they're not going to get a top-5 prospect. And there are some guys in the bottom half of the Pirates' top 10 prospect list that I could certainly part with to get R.A. Dickey to Pittsburgh. He could always end up re-signing, remember.


I'm with ya, I'd love him, but I bet he is more costly than you think.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:45 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 5117
Location: Washington, DC
Barrys Dopers wrote:
I'm with ya, I'd love him, but I bet he is more costly than you think.


You could be right. Still, pretty sick rotation, right? Add Espinosa to the offense with that rotation and you have an 80+ win team, right?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Karstens non-tendered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
I'm with ya, I'd love him, but I bet he is more costly than you think.


You could be right. Still, pretty sick rotation, right? Add Espinosa to the offense with that rotation and you have an 80+ win team, right?


No doubt, but we need a 90 win team, right? And I'd like to win beyond 2013.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], J_C_Steel and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits