Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:31 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:14 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2157
I know many here have tired of DK's columns. Read his latest. What a horrible indictment of this organization. If Nutting doesn't make changes with these idiots running the team then he is saying he just doesn't give a crap. This is somewhere between laughable and utterly disgusting.

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/2819385-74/pirates-polanco-baseball-players-team-hell-month-prospects-week-ankle#axzz2ABLipznJ


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:31 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6157
Location: Keystone State
Sorry, but Neil Huntingdon needs to be fired immediately. If Coonelly supports him, he should go too.

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:38 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6157
Location: Keystone State
Charlie Wilmoth's rebuttal. Although I agree DK has an agenda, this has gone too far.

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/10/24/3546374/kovacevic-gregory-polanco-injured-ankle-during-navy-seals-training

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:52 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
This is just plain unacceptable. Treating the future team in such a sophmoric fashion may be material for "Animal House II" but not for professional athletics on a team fighting to become acceptable. To risk injury to these kids shows a total lack of understanding of the goal. The is certainly ok to include some fun activities to keep everyone bonding together but they should not be activities that turn players against management or risk injury.

Looks like someone who has gained a little power and it has gone straight to thier head. The Pirates need to access this situation and remove those held responsible. -- Fire the bastards.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:51 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 3601
Location: Economy, PA
It was both very strange and very Pirates like the way the announcements came out a while back. In the midst of the collapse, well before season's end, Coonelly announced that no one was getting fired. Then a week or so later Nutting says there will be a thorough review and the status quo is unacceptable.

Did Coonelly really make that announcement without talking to Nutting?

They should have waited until the end of the season, then whatever came out should have come from Nutting.

Now Nutting has painted himself into a corner. He has to fire someone or he looks real stupid. And since he has to fire someone, he may as well fire everyone. From Coonelly on down.

Start fresh and get better people.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:54 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:06 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Westmoreland County Pennsylvania
After this season's record setting collapse, I am of the opinion that NH, if anyone, has to go.

It really didn't take a baseball genius to determine that the Pirates needed to build from within by the draft and smart trades when NH was hired as GM.

But, also as important if not more so, is assembling a team of quality front office personnel, scouts, and coaches who can develop the talent the Pirates already have and will acquire in the future.

I must say, at this point, that probably nothing or no one could have screwed up a player like Cutch because he has so much talent!

Although NH's "plan" to build from within makes abundant sense now and when he was hired, the major league team is still a losing team.

For that reason, I'm no longer in the NH camp. I have NO reason to believe that this Pirate team will be any better next year than it was this year.

The basic strategy is sound but a different leader at the helm, I believe, is needed. And, some philosophical changes need to be made.

_________________
Image...You can observe a lot by just watching. -Yogi Berra


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:05 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6157
Location: Keystone State
The more I read about this, the more I think the Pirates need a sweeping cultural change. I could see NH staying if he would have made some drastic changes this off-season, but either his loyalty or arrogance has gotten in the way.

The team itself is headed in the right direction. The NAVY seals things doesn't bother me. Big corporations, small companies do things like this all the time and it works. But everything else has just built up to the point where there too many questions regarding all part of the organization.

No doubt DK has made it personal with these guys and I really have questioned his loyalty to franchise fogging his vision, but there are too many things wrong structurally with this organization to just stand still.

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:07 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1080
Wow. What a bunch of clowns. Next we will hear that the Dominican Academy required the players to go on panty raids on Saturday nights.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:15 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1404
Location: Eastern Shore
I wasn't originally bothered by the Navy Seals thing. There's a lot that can be gained from such an exercise and I don't think every day of every season has to be spent on "baseball fundamentals".

However, reading that there was a base-stealing/sliding practice at 5:00am, the day of an away game, turned my stomach. Practicing in the dark? Out-of-shape coaches playing second? This is a formula for injury. Maybe there was another reason Mark Appel didn't want to sign with the Pirates, and it had nothing to do with money. Maybe he just didn't want to forgo his senior season to join such a Mickey-Mouse operation. If this sort of thing is common knowledge around the sport, as DK has been alleging for months, I wouldn't want to join this organization either.

It's hard enough to lure quality veteran players to a small-market team like the Pirates, esp with such a dismal history. But if prospects aren't interested, then the team is doubly screwed. I'm coming around to the opinion that the staff ought to go. And the sooner the better....


Last edited by val on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
The one thing here that bothered me most was the Mark Appel retweet of DK's story (on DK's blog). The fact that Appel took the time to tweet this makes it fairly clear that he was aware of the weirdness in our system. I am not a fan of Mike Newman at Fangraphs, but he made an odd remark or three about our system practices based on stuff he was hearing before 2012. He failed to elaborate after throwing out the concerning things he was hearing (which was agitating). Perhaps the Bucs really have these dirty secrets that is hurting there credibility. I recall the 2010 draft when everyone thought Austin Kubitza would sign, for some reason he never did and ended up at Rice where he will be a 1st or 2nd round pick in 2013. Hmm?

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:28 pm
Posts: 673
I read the article last night when DK tweeted this right before I fell asleep. Woke up this morning and half thought it was just a dream. This whole saga is more sad than anything. Just unacceptable behavior from Kyle Stark (who appears to be a RAVING lunatic).


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:58 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1080
I had stopped visiting another Pirates MB because I felt they were all homers and would blindly defend anything the pirates brass chooses to do....but I stopped in to that site today to see if they were up to those old tricks of blindly defending and sure enough, there they were basically saying DK is garbage and anything he writes is garbage and they have no problem with the Seal training or the hell week stuff. Glad I made the jump.

If Bob Nutting does not look at this and see that they are ruining the one avenue we have to get better, draft and SIGN players...then he is just as bad as those making the decisions that its a good idea to treat your minor league system like a college fraternity.

The Seal training and hell week crap was meant to be 'bonding' exercises...you know what does that better than anything....winning....getting better as an individual and winning as a team....that builds bonds....


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
Tim Williams has an article strongly questioning DK's "facts", it is worthwhile to consider the messenger. Tim also links to evidence that many, many teams in sports do this kind of stuff.

Tim basically says Polanco was indeed in a boot for weeks due to the in game injury and that he must have said he was OK to participate because Josh Bell was allowed to skip it.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:23 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1080
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Tim Williams has an article strongly questioning DK's "facts", it is worthwhile to consider the messenger. Tim also links to evidence that many, many teams in sports do this kind of stuff.

Tim basically says Polanco was indeed in a boot for weeks due to the in game injury and that he must have said he was OK to participate because Josh Bell was allowed to skip it.


So then Tim is saying Polanco, and a pitcher that was in the same drill, are liars.

Does any sane person see value in making prospects run base drills through a pool of ice water?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Tim Williams has an article strongly questioning DK's "facts", it is worthwhile to consider the messenger. Tim also links to evidence that many, many teams in sports do this kind of stuff.

Tim basically says Polanco was indeed in a boot for weeks due to the in game injury and that he must have said he was OK to participate because Josh Bell was allowed to skip it.


So then Tim is saying Polanco, and a pitcher that was in the same drill, are liars.

Does any sane person see value in making prospects run base drills through a pool of ice water?


No, he is saying that he spoke with Polanco directly and so did Kristy Robinson and he cites other sources too. He is saying that DK is twisting the time frame and facts.

Sure, it breaks up the boring program that these kids have been doing for 8 months. It is fun to do this kind of stuff and gets the guys attention. I'm not saying I'd do it, but Olympians and over 100 teams in sports do this kind of stuff. There are also direct quotes (per PG plus) from Pirate players that say this stuff is LESS intense than their normal training regimes.

I don't see it as a big deal, but the problem is that other prospects might and we can't have people avoiding the Pirates for fear of stuff like this that has little value. Bad publicity is not good whether its warranted or not.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2206
Location: Naples, FL
They need that icewater in their veins so they don't collapse in September after making it to the big club.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2206
Location: Naples, FL
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Tim Williams has an article strongly questioning DK's "facts", it is worthwhile to consider the messenger. Tim also links to evidence that many, many teams in sports do this kind of stuff.

Tim basically says Polanco was indeed in a boot for weeks due to the in game injury and that he must have said he was OK to participate because Josh Bell was allowed to skip it.


So then Tim is saying Polanco, and a pitcher that was in the same drill, are liars.

Does any sane person see value in making prospects run base drills through a pool of ice water?


No, he is saying that he spoke with Polanco directly and so did Kristy Robinson and he cites other sources too. He is saying that DK is twisting the time frame and facts.

Sure, it breaks up the boring program that these kids have been doing for 8 months. It is fun to do this kind of stuff and gets the guys attention. I'm not saying I'd do it, but Olympians and over 100 teams in sports do this kind of stuff. There are also direct quotes (per PG plus) from Pirate players that say this stuff is LESS intense than their normal training regimes.

I don't see it as a big deal, but the problem is that other prospects might and we can't have people avoiding the Pirates for fear of stuff like this that has little value. Bad publicity is not good whether its warranted or not.


True. Perception matters.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
Kristy was all over this last night, I guess DK's original story said that Polanco directly said all these things, then she called him out and said Polanco speaks no English and Tony Sanchez chipped in that Polanco knows 5 words maybe. Then, DK changed his story and said it was through a translator.

Kristy the says she was in WV twice and Polanco had a boot twice, DK says no boot until last week.

Tony Sanchez adds this - "We are as prepared to succeed, if not more, than any other organization in the MLB. Not just physically but mentally as well."

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:12 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1080
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Kristy was all over this last night, I guess DK's original story said that Polanco directly said all these things, then she called him out and said Polanco speaks no English and Tony Sanchez chipped in that Polanco knows 5 words maybe. Then, DK changed his story and said it was through a translator.

Kristy the says she was in WV twice and Polanco had a boot twice, DK says no boot until last week.

Tony Sanchez adds this - "We are as prepared to succeed, if not more, than any other organization in the MLB. Not just physically but mentally as well."


Tough to tell who to believe....

In this corner, we have a bunch of people who are either employed directly or indirectly by the Pirates, or run sites that the Pirates grant them access and that is how they gain their insight so depend on the Pirates essentially 'liking them'....

In this corner, we have DK and some other Pittsburgh media that have no reason on the surface to not report the truth but seemingly have some deep seeded bone to pick with the organization....


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: "Laughingstock..."
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2157
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Kristy was all over this last night, I guess DK's original story said that Polanco directly said all these things, then she called him out and said Polanco speaks no English and Tony Sanchez chipped in that Polanco knows 5 words maybe. Then, DK changed his story and said it was through a translator.

Kristy the says she was in WV twice and Polanco had a boot twice, DK says no boot until last week.

Tony Sanchez adds this - "We are as prepared to succeed, if not more, than any other organization in the MLB. Not just physically but mentally as well."

Tony Sanchez should shut up, stop tweeting, and start producing. He's kissing ass. Tim Williams and Kristy Robinson are team bloggers....also kissing ass. DK has since acknowledged there was a translator there when he spoke to Polanco.

Save the military stuff for the military. MP put it best above...you want to bond start winning. They should try running an actual baseball operation. The whole thing is a huge joke. All should be fired. Lets face it the public is starting to find out about the crazy stuff they do, that people inside baseball were already aware of...and they don't like it. Complete joke!


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits