Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:19 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Army Training
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
Apparently Coach K doesn't agree with DK that Army training is ridiculous for his team.

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_stor ... discipline

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:35 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4903
Coach K is from West Point though, so he's fairly biased.

And a few days, even a couple of weeks of 'military training' might help some get perspective, but it's not the real deal.

It's more for 'fun' than 'function'.

But good for Coach K though. Those college kids could use a little 'perspective'.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 732
Location: Bradenton, FL.
I first saw the title and thought of Bill Murray in Stripes


_________________
LetsGoMarauders - Website
LetsGoMarauders - Twitter

A fan-made, fan-run site to support the Marauders/Pirates.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:07 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 1919
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Apparently Coach K doesn't agree with DK that Army training is ridiculous for his team.

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_stor ... discipline

Who cares what coach K thinks? The training the Pirates had their minor league guys do was ludicrous. It proved nothing. And please don't tell me about building team unity. Teach these guys to play the game, which by recent standards they have been doing a lousy job of...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:53 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1062
Yeah...hard to not see how three days of running in sand carrying telephone poles and having top draft picks compete in hand to hand combat won't pay off down the line. Taillon will be ready when someone charges the mound.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:10 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1627
The training worked.for.Indy. believe they finished with the best record.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 3879
Location: Glenshaw, PA
PirateParrot wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Apparently Coach K doesn't agree with DK that Army training is ridiculous for his team.

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_stor ... discipline

Who cares what coach K thinks? The training the Pirates had their minor league guys do was ludicrous. It proved nothing. And please don't tell me about building team unity. Teach these guys to play the game, which by recent standards they have been doing a lousy job of...


You should care, he's the best in his profession.

My entire point was to illustrate that perception is everything, not to conclude that this kind of thing helps. When a winning team does stuff like this the management is praised for thinking outside the box. When a loser does it, people lose their minds and think its ludicrous.

Three days of army training has little to do with baseball fundamentals in the grand scheme of a professional player's career. They weren't going to learn how to run the bases or hit the cutoff in those three days compared to the 200+ otehr days of baseball.

And yes my intent was to invoke Stripes with the title.

_________________
Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
buccosfan77 wrote:
The training worked.for.Indy. believe they finished with the best record.

Minor league wins are not the goal. Developing major league players is the goal.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 1919
Barrys Dopers wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Apparently Coach K doesn't agree with DK that Army training is ridiculous for his team.

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_stor ... discipline

Who cares what coach K thinks? The training the Pirates had their minor league guys do was ludicrous. It proved nothing. And please don't tell me about building team unity. Teach these guys to play the game, which by recent standards they have been doing a lousy job of...


You should care, he's the best in his profession.

My entire point was to illustrate that perception is everything, not to conclude that this kind of thing helps. When a winning team does stuff like this the management is praised for thinking outside the box. When a loser does it, people lose their minds and think its ludicrous.

Three days of army training has little to do with baseball fundamentals in the grand scheme of a professional player's career. They weren't going to learn how to run the bases or hit the cutoff in those three days compared to the 200+ otehr days of baseball.

And yes my intent was to invoke Stripes with the title.

Every time a guy like coach K or Bobby Knight or Joe Paterno or Bill Parcells, etc talks everyone thinks it is the gospel because they were/are great coaches. I find that annoying...they have made plenty of mistakes, so everything they say or do isn't always correct.

I know what you are saying about perception, but for me I don't care who does something like this training...I still think it is ridiculous.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:41 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 1062
I also think its dumb. What is the point of it? If you want to train your players harder then come up with an intense training regimen of your own. It think the bonding thing is moronic.

What we really need to do is get a few of our players on cycles of HGH. Shoot Walker full of HGH and have him lift with his back for a month or two. He already has a power stroke but is skinny. Add some muscle to that boy and he would hit 30 HR's and not miss half the season with ailments...... ;)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:31 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1627
Willton wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
The training worked.for.Indy. believe they finished with the best record.

Minor league wins are not the goal. Developing major league players is the goal.


Okay so the tough training worked for 85% of the season. It needs to be tougher.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
If the Pirates shipped the young players to Siberia to train with the Special Forces for several years before returning to the baseball diamond, then I might get some righteous indignation worked up.

Its three days. Three days. If any single player can't hit, throw, catch or run the bases because he had to spend three days around some Navy Seals then I submit that the player isn't much of a prospect.

I would venture to guess that a good porportion of the U.S. population understands that the Navy Seals undergo some incredibly vigorous training and that the training is designed to push the soldier to his/her limits and to impose the greatest physical demands possible from that soldier. I frankly do not know and do not particularly care if a 3 day session with the Navy Seals is an effective method of demonstrating the commitment undergone by the Seals and whether it has any viable carry-over into how the game is played on the field. I'm guessing that arguments can be made on both sides of the equation.

Again . . . 3 days. Even if it was a complete waste of time (and I'm not saying it was or it wasn't), it doesn't fall on my radar screen as something that needs to be held out as demonstrating incompetance.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 1919
No. 9 wrote:

Again . . . 3 days. Even if it was a complete waste of time (and I'm not saying it was or it wasn't), it doesn't fall on my radar screen as something that needs to be held out as demonstrating incompetance.

I don't care if it was 3 hours...it is a silly exercise that should be saved for said Navy Seals. In and of itself maybe it doesn't demonstrate incompetence but add it to the list of other things we've seen from Kyle Stark and it provides the cherry on top of his incompetent practices.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 732
Location: Bradenton, FL.
What's next? The Navy Seals are going to have 3 hours of intense batting practice?

_________________
LetsGoMarauders - Website
LetsGoMarauders - Twitter

A fan-made, fan-run site to support the Marauders/Pirates.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:35 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1627
Look, I'm a current resident of suburbia Pittsburgh but my childhood belongs to Lawrence, Kansas. I'm a devoted fan of my beloved Kansas jayhawk basketball. Each preseason under bill self the team goes through a week of conditioning hell called boot camp. Hmmm. For that week their mental toughness is tested, much more then their physical durability. They don't pick up a basketball the entire week. Can't imagine its that much different. When I tuning seals I think durability above all their other qualities.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
buccosfan77 wrote:
Look, I'm a current resident of suburbia Pittsburgh but my childhood belongs to Lawrence, Kansas. I'm a devoted fan of my beloved Kansas jayhawk basketball. Each preseason under bill self the team goes through a week of conditioning hell called boot camp. Hmmm. For that week their mental toughness is tested, much more then their physical durability. They don't pick up a basketball the entire week. Can't imagine its that much different. When I tuning seals I think durability above all their other qualities.

That's college basketball; this is professional baseball. One involves long periods of high effort followed by multiple days of rest; the other involves short periods of high effort followed by approximately 15-20 hours of rest at most. One involves playing 4 months during the coldest time of the year; the other involves playing 6 months during the hottest time of the year. One sport focuses on athleticism; the other focuses on developed, repeatable skills. The circumstances surrounding each sport are so starkly different that it is improper to think that the conditioning desirable for basketball would be similarly desirable for baseball.

Mental toughness is not a problem that the Pirates have. Their problems lie with developing baseball skills. The Pirates should be focusing more on the latter over the former. And in any event, the Pirates' durability will not be tested in three days of military training; it will be tested during the six months of baseball in which they play 6-7 games a week.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:06 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4903
No. 9 wrote:
I frankly do not know and do not particularly care if a 3 day session with the Navy Seals is an effective method of demonstrating the commitment undergone by the Seals and whether it has any viable carry-over into how the game is played on the field. I'm guessing that arguments can be made on both sides of the equation.


'Training' with SEALS for 3 days is like playing pickup hoops with MJ for 3 hours. It's a great story, you might even learn an atom's worth about 'what it takes' or whatever, but 'viable carry-over' it wouldn't be.

It might be a 'fun motivational' or 'break from the game', but I doubt it would offer any type of long-term or effective results.

I've seen people fail to get 'take away' from 9 weeks of intensive military training. Unless the trainees fall under UCMJ, anything less than 2 weeks is an exhibition.

It's not that 'training with military' is a sign of 'leadership incomeptence', but more than it really shouldn't be viewed as anything other than a publicity stunt.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
I don't seem to recall the Pirates promoting the exercise. It seems to me that the media brought it to light.

I don't get the righteous indignation. It makes zero sense to me. Again . . . I don't buy any suggestion that spending 3 days with Navy Seals somehow stunts a particular player's baseball development. If that was indeed the case, wouldn't every team have to re-examine what it requires a player to do during the offseason?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the players needed to spend 4 hours per day (for a total of 12 hours) running the bases. Maybe that would make the difference that some seem to suggest was lost when they spent 3 days with the Seals.

I'm not sold that there is any material benefit to such training but I'm also not sold that corporate "team building" retreats offer material benefits as well but there is a sizeable population that believes there is an important benefit to such exercises. My reaction . . . "oh well" . . . nothing more, nothing less.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:16 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4903
No. 9 wrote:
I don't seem to recall the Pirates promoting the exercise. It seems to me that the media brought it to light.


I meant in general. In general, a sports team doing 'military training' screams 'publicity stunt' (like that Coach K article). Can't comment on the specifics of the Pirates thing.

No. 9 wrote:
I don't get the righteous indignation. It makes zero sense to me. Again . . . I don't buy any suggestion that spending 3 days with Navy Seals somehow stunts a particular player's baseball development... I'm not sold that there is any material benefit to such training but I'm also not sold that corporate "team building" retreats offer material benefits as well but there is a sizeable population that believes there is an important benefit to such exercises. My reaction . . . "oh well" . . . nothing more, nothing less.


I agree. Sorry if that wasn't clearer in my post(s).

Anyone who takes a team, any team, doing 'military training' seriously needs to lighten up. Your corporate 'team building retreat' analogy is very apt.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Army Training
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:47 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:28 pm
Posts: 217
People are really getting desperate for people to blame....


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits