Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:37 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:47 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4906
Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Do you think maybe Hurdle had to ask that because our $15 million dollar, top-of-the-rotation pitcher wants him as his personal catcher???


Probably the case, but...

The Bucs can't waste a roster spot on Barajas, whether he's catching 60-80 games/year or only when A.J. pitches.

It's time to see what TS can do and if Fort really can hold his nickname down.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:10 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2169
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:05 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Ryann wrote:
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

I don't see anyone here claiming to be satisfied with Barajas.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:54 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3352
Location: Wheeling, WV
The question here is should Malholm and Doumit still be Pirates. The answer is no. Maholm was way over his worth and last I checked, we have no DH and that makes Doumit useless to us.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Rochester, New York
Substitute2 wrote:
last I checked, we have no DH and that makes Doumit useless to us.


Ding, ding, ding. Doumit provides a good bat when he's healthy. He can't stay healthy playing catcher.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:31 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2169
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

I don't see anyone here claiming to be satisfied with Barajas.

Throughout the season especially before the downturn MANY on the board were raving about how much of a better defensive player Barajas was.

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:54 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4906
Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

I don't see anyone here claiming to be satisfied with Barajas.

Throughout the season especially before the downturn MANY on the board were raving about how much of a better defensive player Barajas was.


Can't speak for everyone, but they probably meant (specifically) passed balls and/or wild pitches. Barajas had only 7 and 25 of each, respectively.

Conversely, Doumit averaged 4 and 39.5/year (and factor in injuries, shortened 'learning curb' years and/or judicious use behind the dish and those numbers would be higher than they would appear; I don't know his 162/full year average).

Granted, Barajas' dWAR was equal to Doumit's last year (-0.6), so it's a wash, but technically Barajas was better than Doumit in that respect (just as Doumit is/was clearly better at throwing out runners).

Also, FWIW, I can't find a game log of Rod's 2012 defensive stats. It would be interesting to see just how bad his SB/CS (and/or PB/WP) #'s were as the season went on. I'd take a guess that as the season unfolded his #'s got worse, due to age/injuries and general melancholy.

EDIT: Lastly 'and also', I didn't look up Rod's ERA, but again I would guess that (thanks in part to an improved pitching staff that) when he was behind the plate that the Pirates pitchers had a lower ERA than when Doumit had been. Surely someone smarter than I can look it up and prove it/otherwise.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7107
Barajas sucked, but you cant fully put all the stolen bases on the catchers. Yadier Molina would have had a tough time throwing out runners if he was catching the Pirates pitching staff.

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 4572
Location: Pittsburgh
Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

I don't see anyone here claiming to be satisfied with Barajas.

Throughout the season especially before the downturn MANY on the board were raving about how much of a better defensive player Barajas was.

Before the downturn, after the downturn, and probably after he's dead and in his grave, Rod Barajas is vastly superior to Doumit defensively.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
All the dumbass members here always complained about how bad Doumit's defense was...Well look at Rod Barajas. The guy was throwing out a whole 7% of baserunners.

I don't see anyone here claiming to be satisfied with Barajas.

Throughout the season especially before the downturn MANY on the board were raving about how much of a better defensive player Barajas was.

Being better than Doumit defensively and being an unsatisfactory catching option are not mutually exclusive.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:28 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2169
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:13 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Ryann wrote:
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

Because we needed a catcher, not a DH.

Also, Doumit was due a lot more money in 2012 than the Pirates paid Barajas in 2012.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Last edited by Willton on Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:28 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4906
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

Because we needed a catcher, not a DH.


And because before this season, Barajas had only once (in 11 ML seasons) ended with a -dWAR. The complete erosion of his catching skills (or, at least throwing out runners) wasn't expected.

While Barajas had equal terrible dWAR to Doumit last year, one has to consider that Barajas is 10 years older than Doumit.

So what Willton says is a generous understatement.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:45 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
NSMaster56 wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

Because we needed a catcher, not a DH.


And because before this season, Barajas had only once (in 11 ML seasons) ended with a -dWAR. The complete erosion of his catching skills (or, at least throwing out runners) wasn't expected.

While Barajas had equal terrible dWAR to Doumit last year, one has to consider that Barajas is 10 years older than Doumit.

So what Willton says is a generous understatement.

Also keep in mind that Doumit is injury prone, and a good reason why the Twins were able to keep him healthy and hitting is because they have the DH. Doumit caught fewer games for Minnesota in 2012 (59) than he caught in his injury-plagued 2011 with the Pirates (60). Even if the Pirates resigned Doumit, they would need an additional catcher as a backup for the backup.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Omaha, NE via Sioux City, Kansas City, and Chicago
Willton wrote:
Also keep in mind that Doumit is injury prone, and a good reason why the Twins were able to keep him healthy and hitting is because they have the DH. Doumit caught fewer games for Minnesota in 2012 (59) than he caught in his injury-plagued 2011 with the Pirates (60). Even if the Pirates resigned Doumit, they would need an additional catcher as a backup for the backup.


I've been arguing this entire time that the Pirates misused Doumit. It's no secret that when over-used he became run down, his numbers slipped, and he became injury prone. When he was fresh he was an adequate catcher and well above average hitting catcher. You can argue all you want but the proof is in how he played this season. I fear the same will happen to McKenry next season. If thrust into a starting position where he plays in 70% of the games his production will suffer. While a 50/50 split might not be realistic, I believe staying as close to that as possible for the best interest of the catcher(s) and the team.

_________________
#3 Iowa State Cyclones vs #7 Connecticut Huskies
Sweet Sixteen
March Madness!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:58 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
Also keep in mind that Doumit is injury prone, and a good reason why the Twins were able to keep him healthy and hitting is because they have the DH. Doumit caught fewer games for Minnesota in 2012 (59) than he caught in his injury-plagued 2011 with the Pirates (60). Even if the Pirates resigned Doumit, they would need an additional catcher as a backup for the backup.


I've been arguing this entire time that the Pirates misused Doumit. It's no secret that when over-used he became run down, his numbers slipped, and he became injury prone. When he was fresh he was an adequate catcher and well above average hitting catcher. You can argue all you want but the proof is in how he played this season. I fear the same will happen to McKenry next season. If thrust into a starting position where he plays in 70% of the games his production will suffer. While a 50/50 split might not be realistic, I believe staying as close to that as possible for the best interest of the catcher(s) and the team.

I would agree that Doumit would be best used as the Twins used him, but that still leaves the Pirates without a starting catcher. Who is supposed to catch the 100 games that Doumit cannot?

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 4572
Location: Pittsburgh
Ryann wrote:
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

Doumit sucks on defense. Barajas is a good defensive catcher. But that isn't the point.

The only way the Pirates could have kept Doumit was by exercising his option, and I think that we're all agreed that would have been a terrible move. He had no desire to resign with the Pirates. He wanted out.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 4572
Location: Pittsburgh
IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
Also keep in mind that Doumit is injury prone, and a good reason why the Twins were able to keep him healthy and hitting is because they have the DH. Doumit caught fewer games for Minnesota in 2012 (59) than he caught in his injury-plagued 2011 with the Pirates (60). Even if the Pirates resigned Doumit, they would need an additional catcher as a backup for the backup.


I've been arguing this entire time that the Pirates misused Doumit. It's no secret that when over-used he became run down, his numbers slipped, and he became injury prone. When he was fresh he was an adequate catcher and well above average hitting catcher. You can argue all you want but the proof is in how he played this season. I fear the same will happen to McKenry next season. If thrust into a starting position where he plays in 70% of the games his production will suffer. While a 50/50 split might not be realistic, I believe staying as close to that as possible for the best interest of the catcher(s) and the team.

Doumit was NEVER an adequate catcher. He was terrible when rested, he was terrible when tired. He bitched if he was asked to play another position. He was a fine hitter, no doubt about it. He remains the worst defensive catcher I have ever seen.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Omaha, NE via Sioux City, Kansas City, and Chicago
Willton wrote:
I would agree that Doumit would be best used as the Twins used him, but that still leaves the Pirates without a starting catcher. Who is supposed to catch the 100 games that Doumit cannot?


Jeff Clement, of course.

;)

_________________
#3 Iowa State Cyclones vs #7 Connecticut Huskies
Sweet Sixteen
March Madness!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Revisiting the Maholm and Doumit Decisions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:13 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2169
sisyphus wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Okay so Doumit and Barajas both suck on defense? Agreed, then why wouldn't we actually resign Doumit who is a MUCH better hitter?

Doumit sucks on defense. Barajas is a good defensive catcher. But that isn't the point.

The only way the Pirates could have kept Doumit was by exercising his option, and I think that we're all agreed that would have been a terrible move. He had no desire to resign with the Pirates. He wanted out.

Wow do you even watch baseball?! Barajas is a good defensive catcher?! Jose Tabata is as good as Justin Upton??? What kind of stuff are you smoking?

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSNbot Media and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits