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 Post subject: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:16 am 
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So this is it....last game of the season. As much as this collapse has sucked, I'd still like to end the season with a sweep and 80 wins.

That being said, another off season of hopefully adding some pieces to be competitive next year for the entire year.

Some of the key pieces I think we need are (in no particular order).

1. Veteran Catcher. I'm not looking for huge offense here, just good enough. I'm more concerned with his relationship with a young pitching staff that will contain people like McPherson, Locke and probably Cole.

2. Leadoff hitter. This may come in the form of another outfielder, or a SS. We need some one though that eats up pitches and gets on base.

3. Bullpen. I think we have a good foundation here, just need to build around it. Closer may be a need but we will see what the Pirates do.

4. Bench. This I think hurts us more than anything. We need people that can pinch hit. I know we have Sanchez and Jones depending on who is starting, but I wouldn't be against using Jones as trade bait for numbers 1, 2, 5, or 6. He is at his highest value and his 32, may not have another season like this.

5. Starting Pitcher. We have AJ and Wandy in there for sure, the rest is up in the air. We need an inning eater that will keep us in games.

6. Shortstop. I actually am ok with Barmes next year. I honestly think after looking at his career numbers that the 2nd half of the season (.255/.318/.348) is the real Barmes and if that is the case I can live with that, especially from the 8 hole.

I'm not sure where these pieces are going to come from but I have some suggestions for number 4, the bench help.

Jason Bay - 33 years old, seems like a change of scenery would energize him a bit. Wouldn't be required to do much, expectations low. Spot starter, bench bat. Can still hit those nice line drives and fits well in PNC park. Could probably be had for very little with the Mets eating a large chunk of the contract. Could be a low risk high reward type (ie. AJ Burnett).

Mark Kotsay - 36 years old. Could be had from the Padres in a trade. Before pounding me for this hear me out. He plays all 3 outfield positions and 1B. More importantly though, he is the one of the best Pinch Hitters in the game. His PH numbers in 2012 are (.277/.320/.489/.809).

I will be kind of disappointed if the Pirates payroll doesn't crack 70 million next year, not saying by opening day, but by the end of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:26 am 
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I have expressed my thoughts on this many times but please Pirates, do not just sign a mike kotsay or casey kotchman to a 5 million dollar deal, it will backfire and be a total waste of money.
Either get a bigger name FA to a 2 or 3 year deal or dont spend the money at all. They will end up with a jeremy burntiz, chris stynes, lyle overbay, raul mondesi, rod barjas, erik bedard type....there are many more examples, and if you spend millions on has beens, you wind up burning your money..


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:30 am 
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Yeah, the Pirates have barked up the washed-up veteran tree for way too long. Either save the money or get a true All-Star caliber player.

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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:12 am 
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I would like to sign one of these C
Chris Iannetta (30)
Mike Napoli (31)
Russell Martin (30)

One for depth
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Joe Saunders (32)
Carlos Villanueva (29).

15-20 million with not a lot of holes to fill

Here is my projection on what the roster will be

Wandy Rodriguez - 8.5 million
AJ Burnett - 8 million
Clint Barmes - 5.5 million( i guess i can live with him hitting 8th aint much worse than jack was)
Andrew McCutchen - 4.7 million
Garrett Jones - 4.5 million*( unless traded)
Neil Walker - 2.5 million
James McDonald - 2.5 million
Jose Tabata - 1.1 million
Gaby Sanchez - 1 million
Pedro Alvarez - 600 K
Travis Snider - 500 K
Michael McKenry - 500 K
Starling Marte - 500 K
Jordy Mercer - 500 K
Jeff Locke - 500 K
Kyle McPherson - 500 K
Bryan Morris - 500 K
Justin Wilson - 500 K
Tony Watson - 500 K
Jared Hughes - 500 K

So you need 3 pitchers, 1 catcher and 1 bench player. If you let Karstens go you probably need to bring in at least one veteran pitcher as you don't want to have both Locke and McPherson in the rotation from the get go.

The bench player you can probably get from within so he would cost 500 K. The Pen arm should be a Bryan willson, Ryan madison type some one who can compete for the closers role because Hannerhan got traded.

So the rest of the money will likely go to a starting pitcher, a closer and a catcher. I think they could be open to bringing Karstens back but it would be for a deal that would make it palatable if they had to move him to the bullpen. Say 3-4 million but maybe they entice him by giving him a two year deal with that salary per year. You then have 3-4 million for a closer looking to bounce back. Could be Ryan Madson or Brian Wilson and then that leaves you with 12 million for a catcher.

Of course this is assuming the payroll goes to 50-55 million. It could easily go to 60-65 million but I think for that to happen it would be because a trade was made. The team has enough internal pieces that you don't want to be bringing in the mid tier veterans.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:18 am 
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I don't see the need for a leadoff hitter. Where would he play? To think the Pirates are going to find a shortstop who is better than Barmes and can hit leadoff is a pipe dream. I think Marte can handle the leadoff spot. He doesn't walk but he gets hits and has great speed. For once we have somebody who has speed and knows how to steal a base.

I agree that we need a catcher, a starting pitcher, and a good bench player.

Of course you need a good bullpen but it's hard to know who that will be at this time of year.

I'm expecting the team to continue to improve next year. Whoever they sign at catcher will be an upgrade over Barajas. McKenry, Alvarez, Barmes, Marte, and Snider should all provide more next year than they did this year. Or at least I hope.

Starting pitching though will be key as always.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:58 am 
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I think they should make a big push for Elvis Andrus and one of the Nats' extra catchers, preferably Wilson Ramos. We have some pieces to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:06 am 
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I'd try Walker at leadoff next season.

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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 am 
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BigdaddyK wrote:
I would like to sign one of these C
Chris Iannetta (30)
Mike Napoli (31)
Russell Martin (30)

One for depth
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Joe Saunders (32)
Carlos Villanueva (29).

15-20 million with not a lot of holes to fill

Here is my projection on what the roster will be

Wandy Rodriguez - 8.5 million
AJ Burnett - 8 million
Clint Barmes - 5.5 million( i guess i can live with him hitting 8th aint much worse than jack was)
Andrew McCutchen - 4.7 million
Garrett Jones - 4.5 million*( unless traded)
Neil Walker - 2.5 million
James McDonald - 2.5 million
Jose Tabata - 1.1 million
Gaby Sanchez - 1 million
Pedro Alvarez - 600 K
Travis Snider - 500 K
Michael McKenry - 500 K
Starling Marte - 500 K
Jordy Mercer - 500 K
Jeff Locke - 500 K
Kyle McPherson - 500 K
Bryan Morris - 500 K
Justin Wilson - 500 K
Tony Watson - 500 K
Jared Hughes - 500 K

So you need 3 pitchers, 1 catcher and 1 bench player. If you let Karstens go you probably need to bring in at least one veteran pitcher as you don't want to have both Locke and McPherson in the rotation from the get go.

The bench player you can probably get from within so he would cost 500 K. The Pen arm should be a Bryan willson, Ryan madison type some one who can compete for the closers role because Hannerhan got traded.

So the rest of the money will likely go to a starting pitcher, a closer and a catcher. I think they could be open to bringing Karstens back but it would be for a deal that would make it palatable if they had to move him to the bullpen. Say 3-4 million but maybe they entice him by giving him a two year deal with that salary per year. You then have 3-4 million for a closer looking to bounce back. Could be Ryan Madson or Brian Wilson and then that leaves you with 12 million for a catcher.

Of course this is assuming the payroll goes to 50-55 million. It could easily go to 60-65 million but I think for that to happen it would be because a trade was made. The team has enough internal pieces that you don't want to be bringing in the mid tier veterans.


I just looked online and this years payroll is about 64 million dollars.
Quote:
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

So knowing that I would hope the payroll goes up another 15-20 by the end of the season. It should push 80.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:12 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
I'd try Walker at leadoff next season.


He's a big run producer for us. I'd hate to waste his clutch-ness at leadoff.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:23 am 
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rellimie wrote:
BigdaddyK wrote:
I would like to sign one of these C
Chris Iannetta (30)
Mike Napoli (31)
Russell Martin (30)

One for depth
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Joe Saunders (32)
Carlos Villanueva (29).

15-20 million with not a lot of holes to fill

Here is my projection on what the roster will be

Wandy Rodriguez - 8.5 million
AJ Burnett - 8 million
Clint Barmes - 5.5 million( i guess i can live with him hitting 8th aint much worse than jack was)
Andrew McCutchen - 4.7 million
Garrett Jones - 4.5 million*( unless traded)
Neil Walker - 2.5 million
James McDonald - 2.5 million
Jose Tabata - 1.1 million
Gaby Sanchez - 1 million
Pedro Alvarez - 600 K
Travis Snider - 500 K
Michael McKenry - 500 K
Starling Marte - 500 K
Jordy Mercer - 500 K
Jeff Locke - 500 K
Kyle McPherson - 500 K
Bryan Morris - 500 K
Justin Wilson - 500 K
Tony Watson - 500 K
Jared Hughes - 500 K

So you need 3 pitchers, 1 catcher and 1 bench player. If you let Karstens go you probably need to bring in at least one veteran pitcher as you don't want to have both Locke and McPherson in the rotation from the get go.

The bench player you can probably get from within so he would cost 500 K. The Pen arm should be a Bryan willson, Ryan madison type some one who can compete for the closers role because Hannerhan got traded.

So the rest of the money will likely go to a starting pitcher, a closer and a catcher. I think they could be open to bringing Karstens back but it would be for a deal that would make it palatable if they had to move him to the bullpen. Say 3-4 million but maybe they entice him by giving him a two year deal with that salary per year. You then have 3-4 million for a closer looking to bounce back. Could be Ryan Madson or Brian Wilson and then that leaves you with 12 million for a catcher.

Of course this is assuming the payroll goes to 50-55 million. It could easily go to 60-65 million but I think for that to happen it would be because a trade was made. The team has enough internal pieces that you don't want to be bringing in the mid tier veterans.


I just looked online and this years payroll is about 64 million dollars.
Quote:
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

So knowing that I would hope the payroll goes up another 15-20 by the end of the season. It should push 80.


just by subtracting this players contracts we shave about 2300 of the current payroll of 64

Charlie Morton $ 2,445,000 Pitcher ( resigned cheaper)
Nate McLouth $ 1,750,000 Outfielder
Erik Bedard $ 4,500,000 Pitcher
Rod Barajas $ 4,000,000 Catcher
Kevin Correia $ 4,000,000 Pitcher
Casey McGehee $ 2,537,500 Third Baseman


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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My line up guess as of today for opening day

Marte Lf
Tabata/Snyder Rf
cuth cf
Pedro 3rd
walker 2nd
gabby 1st
C
SS
p


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:43 am 
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BigdaddyK wrote:
My line up guess as of today for opening day

Marte Lf
Tabata/Snyder Rf
cuth cf
Pedro 3rd
walker 2nd
gabby 1st
C
Barmes SS
p


fixed it for you


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:05 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I'd try Walker at leadoff next season.


He's a big run producer for us. I'd hate to waste his clutch-ness at leadoff.

No, he's not. Despite a mid-season surge, Walker does not hit much for power. His greatest skill is his ability to hit for contact, and it would be best utilized closer to the top of the order. Outside of McCutchen, Walker is the Pirates' best candidate for leadoff.

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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Get an all star catcher....makes all the sense in the world with young arms coming up.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Get an all star catcher....makes all the sense in the world with young arms coming up.


someone like matt weiters...too bad the orioles got him before us...oh wait


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Willton wrote:
rellimie wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I'd try Walker at leadoff next season.


He's a big run producer for us. I'd hate to waste his clutch-ness at leadoff.

No, he's not. Despite a mid-season surge, Walker does not hit much for power. His greatest skill is his ability to hit for contact, and it would be best utilized closer to the top of the order. Outside of McCutchen, Walker is the Pirates' best candidate for leadoff.


Run producer does not always equal power hitter.


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 Post subject: Re: October 3rd
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:47 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Run producer does not always equal power hitter.


A run producer like Walker needs guys on base and next season the middle of your lineup is (barring a trade) McCutchen 3rd, Jones 4th, Alvarez 5th. Walker makes solid contact and gets on base. I think he should be considered for the leadoff spot.

Walker 2B
Marte/Tabata LF
McCutchen CF
Jones 1B
Alvarez 3B
Snider RF
McKenry C- I dont have a problem seeing if McKenry can get 95-100 starts at catcher next season, he had 64 this year.
Barmes SS- Unless there is someone available via trade, I think you're stuck with him.

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