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 Post subject: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Congrats nate! He won his first gold glove today. Im suprised i didnt think he would win one.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Considering Bill James' Fielding Bible just recently ranked Nate as far and away the worst defensive center fielder in baseball in 2008, that's quite an achievement.

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fielding ... rs2-08.gif

Bill James never stopped Derek Jeter from winning a slew of undeserved GG's though. Congrats anyway, Nate.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Maybe Bill James is wrong. :o

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Gosh...I bet Bill concluded that after hours of watching Nate play.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:55 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Maybe Bill James is wrong. :o

Or maybe the voters of GG pay way too much attention to the player's hitting. See Bobby Abreu and Derek Jeter.

I love McLouth, but he's no defensive prodigy. I can think of at least 2 NL CFs that are better than he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Willton wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Maybe Bill James is wrong. :o

Or maybe the voters of GG pay way too much attention to the player's hitting. See Bobby Abreu and Derek Jeter.

I love McLouth, but he's no defensive prodigy. I can think of at least 2 NL CFs that are better than he is.



I agree about the voting for GG. However McLouth was pretty good last year. Took much better angles, got to a lot more balls and had a plus arm. Beltran and Victorino also won GG's so maybe those were the two guys you were thinking of. I thought Ankiel was excellent the times I saw him also, and I'm not familiar with a couple guys to comment on them. I'm not sure this is a choice you can really argue with though. Not to mention Nate made some "wow" plays that influence voters(I would assume). The throw in the all star game and numerous "Sportscenter" diving catches.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:16 am 
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PirateParrot wrote:
I agree about the voting for GG. However McLouth was pretty good last year. Took much better angles, got to a lot more balls and had a plus arm. Beltran and Victorino also won GG's so maybe those were the two guys you were thinking of. I thought Ankiel was excellent the times I saw him also, and I'm not familiar with a couple guys to comment on them. I'm not sure this is a choice you can really argue with though. Not to mention Nate made some "wow" plays that influence voters(I would assume). The throw in the all star game and numerous "Sportscenter" diving catches.

Regardless of whether McLouth got better defensively this year (which I won't necessarily grant), getting better or being pretty good does not equal being among the best, "Sportscenter" and "wow" plays notwithstanding. I like McLouth as our CF, but let's not kid ourselves: he's a fair defender in center.

The players I was thinking of were Beltran and Chris Young of the D'Backs.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:05 am 
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For the record, Beltran won one too.

Second, managers and coaches vote for the GG. I think they are more reliable in judging this type of thing than sportswriters.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:53 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
Second, managers and coaches vote for the GG. I think they are more reliable in judging this type of thing than sportswriters.

Rafael Palmeiro's 1999 GG (you know, the season where he only played 28 games in the field) would indicate otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:17 am 
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Willton wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
I agree about the voting for GG. However McLouth was pretty good last year. Took much better angles, got to a lot more balls and had a plus arm. Beltran and Victorino also won GG's so maybe those were the two guys you were thinking of. I thought Ankiel was excellent the times I saw him also, and I'm not familiar with a couple guys to comment on them. I'm not sure this is a choice you can really argue with though. Not to mention Nate made some "wow" plays that influence voters(I would assume). The throw in the all star game and numerous "Sportscenter" diving catches.

Regardless of whether McLouth got better defensively this year (which I won't necessarily grant), getting better or being pretty good does not equal being among the best, "Sportscenter" and "wow" plays notwithstanding. I like McLouth as our CF, but let's not kid ourselves: he's a fair defender in center.

The players I was thinking of were Beltran and Chris Young of the D'Backs.


Young was actually one of the guys I haven't seen enough of to comment on. Beltran did win one of the gold gloves this year. Honestly I'm not sure what games you were watching. I'm not saying by any stretch that McLouth is the next coming of Willie Mays, but he was pretty darn good last year. I bet if you asked his pitchers they would tell you they love having him out there. And maybe I should have worded it differently than saying he was pretty good. As I was considering other center fielders I can't think of anyone who "got robbed" by Nate winning the gold glove ahead of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:03 pm 
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I saw Chris Young play quite a bit and he is no Gold Glover. Very bad routes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Congrats to McLouth. I'd love to see a speedy outfield with he and McCutchen on Opening Day.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:34 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Congrats to McLouth. I'd love to see a speedy outfield with he and McCutchen on Opening Day.


When is Brandon Moss going to be able to play? I was bummed when he was hurt last year. He makes the Pirates outfield a lot deeper and better.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
When is Brandon Moss going to be able to play? I was bummed when he was hurt last year. He makes the Pirates outfield a lot deeper and better.

According to pirates.com, he should be ready by spring training.

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/ ... p&c_id=pit

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:23 am 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
When is Brandon Moss going to be able to play? I was bummed when he was hurt last year. He makes the Pirates outfield a lot deeper and better.

According to pirates.com, he should be ready by spring training.

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/ ... p&c_id=pit


Good news for sure. When he first went on the DL the talk was that it would be mid summer before he would be able to come back.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:08 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
According to pirates.com, he should be ready by spring training.

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/ ... p&c_id=pit


Nice .... good news on the Pirate injury front, for a change. I liked Moss and believe that he is the perfect type of outfielder to play as a third-and-a-half or 4th outfielder. Give him 300 at bats. He can hit, can draw some walks, has power, has a cannon arm, and is a good player defensively.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:42 pm 
I still say McLouth sucks.

Just kidding ... what a player he has become. Congrats Nate.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:44 pm 
Quote:
Nice .... good news on the Pirate injury front, for a change. I liked Moss and believe that he is the perfect type of outfielder to play as a third-and-a-half or 4th outfielder. Give him 300 at bats. He can hit, can draw some walks, has power, has a cannon arm, and is a good player defensively.


I'm not sold on Moss yet. I certainly hope they don't anoint him a starting outfielder. Too often, unproven players don't have to earn their starting jobs and are handed the jobs based on "potential." If they make him compete and he wins the job, great.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:27 pm 
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Interesting piece on Nate in John Dewan's (The Fielding Bible) blog:

http://www.actasports.com/sow.php?id=189

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 Post subject: Re: Nate Mclouth Wins Gold Glove
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:40 am 
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This was in the article that someone else posted on here:

"McLouth received a Gold Glove because he committed only a single error and made his share of highlight-reel plays. Still, in true Edmondsian fashion, a great majority of these plays were necessitated by a poor read off the bat and then an exaggerated, uniform-soiling dive for the ball."

I'm glad Nate won, but I'd tend to agree with that.

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