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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:45 pm 
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On the Pirates site there is an article where he blames young players trying to do too much so they can stay in the show. What a crock. The oldest players on the team are the failures...other than Burnett.

Starks & NH need to go for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:26 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
One bad week could be bad luck. Seven bad weeks is just bad baseball.


This.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Let me say this. (Minus the stuff that he has said the past few days which sound like crazy talk). Is this really the GM's fault?

I mean he did do the following:

1. Put together a team that was 16 game over .500 in early August.
2. Improved the team at the trade deadline without selling the top prospects.
3. Traded a 28 year old career middle reliever for a 24 year potential power hitter that immediately got on base at a better clip than the RF he replaced.
4. Had the balls to select the top player in the draft and play chicken with Scott Boras and won. (Yes I know we didn't sign him but giving into Boras to me would have been a loss).

Is it the GM's fault that the pitching stopped pitching, the hitting stopped hitting? 3/4 of this season this team played outstanding, how is the GM responsible for the teams attitude that last 1/4 of the season?

Yes he signed Barajas and Barmes but Barmes has been hitting ok the 2nd half and has been hitting really well in September, so we can't put the blame on Clint for the collapse since during the collapse he hasn't sucked. Rod at the plate has been atrocious but our 2 best pitchers prefer him when they pitch so that has to tell you something, plus we were winning games with him batting 200.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:43 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Let me say this. (Minus the stuff that he has said the past few days which sound like crazy talk). Is this really the GM's fault?

I mean he did do the following:

1. Put together a team that was 16 game over .500 in early August.
2. Improved the team at the trade deadline without selling the top prospects.
3. Traded a 28 year old career middle reliever for a 24 year potential power hitter that immediately got on base at a better clip than the RF he replaced.
4. Had the balls to select the top player in the draft and play chicken with Scott Boras and won. (Yes I know we didn't sign him but giving into Boras to me would have been a loss).

Is it the GM's fault that the pitching stopped pitching, the hitting stopped hitting? 3/4 of this season this team played outstanding, how is the GM responsible for the teams attitude that last 1/4 of the season?

Yes he signed Barajas and Barmes but Barmes has been hitting ok the 2nd half and has been hitting really well in September, so we can't put the blame on Clint for the collapse since during the collapse he hasn't sucked. Rod at the plate has been atrocious but our 2 best pitchers prefer him when they pitch so that has to tell you something, plus we were winning games with him batting 200.


Yeah I know Rel, its fairly easy to say NH is not a bad GM, its harder to say he's a good GM. That's why I've been on the fence. I do fault him for the collapse, he built this team and hired its manager, its on him. Lack of talent is a system wide issue and NH certainly has deficiencies in some areas. For me it comes down to rolling on with an OK GM (who I think has improved over his tenure) or moving on with a new guy presumably hired to follow the same plan but with better execution. I won't be outraged if NH is kept, but his clock is ticking.

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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:50 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
1. Put together a team that was 16 game over .500 in early August.


I didn't know they gave out division titles, playoff appearances and World Series titles in August. Where do we buy our "16 games over .500 in early August" t-shirts?

Seriously, all that matters is where the team ends up.

rellimie wrote:
2. Improved the team at the trade deadline without selling the top prospects.


Really? He made a couple of moves, but according to numerous sources he could have picked up Chase Headley -- now THAT could have made a huge difference for the team.

rellimie wrote:
3. Traded a 28 year old career middle reliever for a 24 year potential power hitter that immediately got on base at a better clip than the RF he replaced.


Where's the power, my friend? I see a lot of ground balls from Snider, and not a lot of loft to his swing. He certainly doesn't look like a regular, and he's spent a good deal of time riding the pine because of hamstring issues. That move is, at best, a wash for the 2012 season and a risk going forward.

rellimie wrote:
4. Had the balls to select the top player in the draft and play chicken with Scott Boras and won. (Yes I know we didn't sign him but giving into Boras to me would have been a loss).


Huh? What did the Pirates "win"? Nothing more than the 9th overall selection in the 2013 draft. I'd rather have a talented player with a year in the Pirates' system. And I'd rather have seen the Pirates select a few more lesser talents in the first 11 rounds and get Appel to sign for more money. Adding another elite pitcher and potential ace to the system is worth that, in my view. Appel is currently ranked the #1 prospect going into the 2013 draft.

rellimie wrote:
Is it the GM's fault that the pitching stopped pitching, the hitting stopped hitting? 3/4 of this season this team played outstanding, how is the GM responsible for the teams attitude that last 1/4 of the season?


The GM is responsible for the whole, not the parts. And the whole -- at the end of the season -- is likely to be the same as it has been for every other season of the last 20. Losing record and no playoffs.

rellimie wrote:
Yes he signed Barajas and Barmes but Barmes has been hitting ok the 2nd half and has been hitting really well in September, so we can't put the blame on Clint for the collapse since during the collapse he hasn't sucked.


The fact that you're defending the acquisition of Clint Barmes -- at 2 years and $10.5 million -- is utterly ridiculous. It's an awful contract and a waste of money.

rellimie wrote:
Rod at the plate has been atrocious but our 2 best pitchers prefer him when they pitch so that has to tell you something, plus we were winning games with him batting 200.


That's not an endorsement of Rod's ability; it's a credit to the other players on the team. Barajas wasn't worth his contract, either.

List all of Neal Huntington's major league (or close to major league) acquisitions and tell me if you're happy... I can wait.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Quick addendum on Travis Snider:

Here's the "masher's" triple slash line with the Bucs -- .248/.323/.333. That ain't good, folks. He's got 7 extra-base hits in 43 games. I don't see a future home run king, particularly given his penchant for pounding the ball into the dirt.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:21 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Quick addendum on Travis Snider:

Here's the "masher's" triple slash line with the Bucs -- .248/.323/.333. That ain't good, folks. He's got 7 extra-base hits in 43 games. I don't see a future home run king, particularly given his penchant for pounding the ball into the dirt.


As we discussed elsewhere, he was never a ground ball guy before coming here. He's either hurting or they are trying something different with his swing. This staff has such a great track record of getting the most out of players. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Quick addendum on Travis Snider:

Here's the "masher's" triple slash line with the Bucs -- .248/.323/.333. That ain't good, folks. He's got 7 extra-base hits in 43 games. I don't see a future home run king, particularly given his penchant for pounding the ball into the dirt.


As we discussed elsewhere, he was never a ground ball guy before coming here. He's either hurting or they are trying something different with his swing. This staff has such a great track record of getting the most out of players. :roll:


Good use of emoticon.

I'm just going by what I've seen. I know he hit more fly balls in Toronto. Coincidentally (or not), he also struck out more often in Canada. Maybe it's the cleaner water.

I don't see Travis Snider as a regular starter. That's my point.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
rellimie wrote:
Let me say this. (Minus the stuff that he has said the past few days which sound like crazy talk). Is this really the GM's fault?

I mean he did do the following:

1. Put together a team that was 16 game over .500 in early August.
2. Improved the team at the trade deadline without selling the top prospects.
3. Traded a 28 year old career middle reliever for a 24 year potential power hitter that immediately got on base at a better clip than the RF he replaced.
4. Had the balls to select the top player in the draft and play chicken with Scott Boras and won. (Yes I know we didn't sign him but giving into Boras to me would have been a loss).

Is it the GM's fault that the pitching stopped pitching, the hitting stopped hitting? 3/4 of this season this team played outstanding, how is the GM responsible for the teams attitude that last 1/4 of the season?

Yes he signed Barajas and Barmes but Barmes has been hitting ok the 2nd half and has been hitting really well in September, so we can't put the blame on Clint for the collapse since during the collapse he hasn't sucked. Rod at the plate has been atrocious but our 2 best pitchers prefer him when they pitch so that has to tell you something, plus we were winning games with him batting 200.


Yeah I know Rel, its fairly easy to say NH is not a bad GM, its harder to say he's a good GM. That's why I've been on the fence. I do fault him for the collapse, he built this team and hired its manager, its on him. Lack of talent is a system wide issue and NH certainly has deficiencies in some areas. For me it comes down to rolling on with an OK GM (who I think has improved over his tenure) or moving on with a new guy presumably hired to follow the same plan but with better execution. I won't be outraged if NH is kept, but his clock is ticking.


I'm not trying to defend everything he has done. I also consider him ok, not great but not bad.

My only concern is who replaces him.

I would only want to see 1 of 3 options:

1. Established GM who has done it before.
2. Anyone from the Cardnials system.
3. Anyone from the Rays system.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:21 pm 
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I guess my question regarding NH is how long do you give him? He is the one ultimately accountable. He has had 5 yrs now and has yet to produce a winner. Pirate fans don't expect a lot. We don't ask for Championships or even divisional crowns. All we want is a .500 plus season and possibly a wild card bid for now.

Those aren't unreason expectations for any fan base. So how long should he get to meet them?


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:51 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
I guess my question regarding NH is how long do you give him?


Playoffs next year or out.

Look, I get that NH inherited a pile of garbage and turned it into a respectable mud house, but the team has clearly shown flashes of potential.

If NH can't deliver on that potential, it shouldn't be too hard to bring in a GM/coach/system who can.

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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Sure there is some luck involved in a season, but it probably tends to even out over
the course of a season. NH can't realistically talk about his results so he needs to
invent strawmen to discuss the state of the team.

Meanwhile 6-0 heading into the bottom of the 7th in NY, back to the sad reality of
this assembled group of subpar ball players showing their true level of ability ...


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Teams on a roll tend to make their own luck. So do teams that are collapsing.


Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Huntington Blames Slide on Bad Luck
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:34 pm 
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rwjcgc wrote:
Sure there is some luck involved in a season, but it probably tends to even out over
the course of a season. NH can't realistically talk about his results so he needs to
invent strawmen to discuss the state of the team.

Meanwhile 6-0 heading into the bottom of the 7th in NY, back to the sad reality of
this assembled group of subpar ball players showing their true level of ability ...


That's my point though. There are players on this team playing below their ability, so is that on NH or is that on the coaching or , IMO, is it on the players?


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