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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:45 am 
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batterup wrote:
Now, even if Ramirez did not sign with us (and cant blame him for not wanting to) we still could overspent on a one or two year deal with somebody, willingham, beltran, etc.


Some people will argue against this yet will not have a leg to stand on. Eric Fryer and Jordy Mercer could have played the entire season for the Pirates and done just as well (and probably better) than the key free agent signings of Barajas and Barmes. Shoot, Chase d'Arnaud could have been up here.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:48 am 
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Exactly IA, it is frustrating beyond belief, what the front office does not realize is that money they try to save by not drafting weiters and not signing these actual good players, they spend on bandages at other positions that dont do anything..
I know the horse is dead, but if we just drafted weiters we probably would have saved $ by not spending that money on barajas and all the other crap catchers over the years..


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:29 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
batterup wrote:
Now, even if Ramirez did not sign with us (and cant blame him for not wanting to) we still could overspent on a one or two year deal with somebody, willingham, beltran, etc.


Some people will argue against this yet will not have a leg to stand on. Eric Fryer and Jordy Mercer could have played the entire season for the Pirates and done just as well (and probably better) than the key free agent signings of Barajas and Barmes. Shoot, Chase d'Arnaud could have been up here.

Whoever made the decision to let Mercer rot on the major league bench all year should be fired. We've been told for years now that he was one of the prospects that could play a prominent role in Pittsburgh. Then they call him up, sit him all year, then hint that they don't think he is an every day player. What? Talk about screwed up.

On the issue of bringing in players, I've said before that Huntington has showed no creativity in finding players. He deserves credit for the AJ signing(although I think he got lucky here) and a few other moves, but in general he has wasted money while bringing in NO talent. For the record I still have my doubts about how much money this owner is willing to spend. Cue the infantile "Cheap Nuttings" posts in 3...2...1....


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:03 am 
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I know the horse is a goner but I will keep saying that they keep putting money into these players that are way past their primes, (overbay, diaz, barajas, bedard, etc.) and yes they get lucky from time to time with burnett but when they spend millions in the offseaon on lesser talent with 3 players they could have used that money to get an actual good player.

we could have gotten weiters for what 10 million if we drafted him, and we could have had him for many years with that 10 million, instead we pass and spend almost 5 million on a 36 year old washed up catcher....i know its a risk to draft a guy and put $ into it but its a risk to sign a 36 year old has been too


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:47 pm 
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batterup wrote:
I know the horse is a goner but I will keep saying that they keep putting money into these players that are way past their primes, (overbay, diaz, barajas, bedard, etc.) and yes they get lucky from time to time with burnett but when they spend millions in the offseaon on lesser talent with 3 players they could have used that money to get an actual good player.

we could have gotten weiters for what 10 million if we drafted him, and we could have had him for many years with that 10 million, instead we pass and spend almost 5 million on a 36 year old washed up catcher....i know its a risk to draft a guy and put $ into it but its a risk to sign a 36 year old has been too


You do know the the Wieters call was not this management team, right?

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:08 pm 
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yes I do know that, it was the same management team that traded rajai davis for 58 year old matt morris and his 12 million dollar salary..

but my point is take a shot and throw alot of money towards someone that can do something instead of spending the same amount of money on guys who are bandaids and prove nothing valuable... I just hope we dont go out next year and sign casey kotchman, ramon hernandez and some other 37 year old light hitting middle infielder for a combined 15 million plus, only because they will fail just as the signings this year, last year and the year before did...learn from the mistakes of littlefield and co. dont immulate them.

And if there is nobody out there next year worth giving 12-16 million to, then eat it and save it for the next year, its just like not throwing a ball over to first if you have no shot.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:22 pm 
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batterup wrote:
yes I do know that, it was the same management team that traded rajai davis for 58 year old matt morris and his 12 million dollar salary..

but my point is take a shot and throw alot of money towards someone that can do something instead of spending the same amount of money on guys who are bandaids and prove nothing valuable... I just hope we dont go out next year and sign casey kotchman, ramon hernandez and some other 37 year old light hitting middle infielder for a combined 15 million plus, only because they will fail just as the signings this year, last year and the year before did...learn from the mistakes of littlefield and co. dont immulate them.

And if there is nobody out there next year worth giving 12-16 million to, then eat it and save it for the next year, its just like not throwing a ball over to first if you have no shot.


I don't see your criticism, they have been spending more than any other team to get "someone that can do something" in teh draft and Latin America. The new rules have curtailed this significantly.

BTW, 4 players for $12 million on 1 and 2 year deals does not equaly 1 player for $12 million per for 5 or 6 years. There is a huge amount of risk involved with signig a big ticket FA.

I'd like to see some examples of signing a big FA in the $10-15 million range for 5 or 6 years that worked out for the signing team.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
BTW, 4 players for $12 million on 1 and 2 year deals does not equaly 1 player for $12 million per for 5 or 6 years. There is a huge amount of risk involved with signig a big ticket FA.

I'd like to see some examples of signing a big FA in the $10-15 million range for 5 or 6 years that worked out for the signing team.


bedard made 5 million, barmes is making 5 million and barajas is making 4.5 million, that is 14.5 million this year on 3 players...

I dont know why you are putting words in my mouth, I never once said I wanted a 5 or 6 year deal, I said I would rather them spend that 15 or 16 million on one player on a one or two year deal, something similar to the deal ramirez signed with the brewers....

Okay lets see if you put your own spin on this one and try to make yourself feel good


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Players who can command a 15 or 16 million dollar a year salary are generally not going to sign for 1 or 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:19 pm 
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batterup wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
BTW, 4 players for $12 million on 1 and 2 year deals does not equaly 1 player for $12 million per for 5 or 6 years. There is a huge amount of risk involved with signig a big ticket FA.

I'd like to see some examples of signing a big FA in the $10-15 million range for 5 or 6 years that worked out for the signing team.


bedard made 5 million, barmes is making 5 million and barajas is making 4.5 million, that is 14.5 million this year on 3 players...

I dont know why you are putting words in my mouth, I never once said I wanted a 5 or 6 year deal, I said I would rather them spend that 15 or 16 million on one player on a one or two year deal, something similar to the deal ramirez signed with the brewers....

Okay lets see if you put your own spin on this one and try to make yourself feel good


I'm not spinning anything, I feel fine. I think we generally agree, but you were very unclear in your previous rant. You don't really see $16 million a year in 1 or two year deals, but a signing like AmRam is exactly what I think is possible. I woudl rather have two guys in the $5-7 range personally. Say Iannetta to C and trade for JJ Hardy.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:48 pm 
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I see, and I agree to disagree, I would rather get a sure minded player IF they are available for 2 years on a 15 million dollar deal instead of a few hopeful maybes for 15 million...Ianetta would be a nice improvement and probably an upgrade, but I would still be hesitent just because he is older and on the decline


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:51 pm 
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batterup wrote:
I see, and I agree to disagree, I would rather get a sure minded player IF they are available for 2 years on a 15 million dollar deal instead of a few hopeful maybes for 15 million...Ianetta would be a nice improvement and probably an upgrade, but I would still be hesitent just because he is older and on the decline


Every free agent is going to be 29 or 30 or older (it takes 6 full years). Only the elite talents hit free agency at younger ages. Both Iannetta and Hardy will be 30 in 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:53 pm 
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barajas has been nothing but average is whole career. he never had a prime.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:04 pm 
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we will need a catcher next year and it leaves management with their hands tied, looks like we will have to get another catcher in the 3-5 million dollar range...Or maybe McKennry will work miracles in the offseason and become an MLB starting catcher, love McKennry but playing him 120 games a year might not work.

russell martin is a FA and only 30 but he will not want to come here for less money
aj pierzinski is 36 and having a career year, out of our price range

torrealba olivio or ianetta are my guesses to be here for around 5 million, too much but even with all my gripping, what else can we do. Who knows maybe McKennry will work wonders and be our starter, even sanchez, but there is no real free agent that I would throw 2 years 30 million at out of this years group


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