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 Post subject: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:04 pm 
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and I know we as fans have nothing to do with the success or failures to this team but next year it will be mid july and even if we are 20 games over .500 you know that all we will hear is "they will fall apart just like they did last year and the year before that" and the fact is, the players know they fell apart and it may be creeping in their heads. I think and again who cares what I as a fan think, but I think this season will hurt us more mentally than ever.

we were 16 games over .500 on August 8th, it not only looked like it was a lock to have a winning season but it also looked like we had a playoff spot if we just played okay the rest of the way. This collapse is epic, last year we heard how bad that was, but this years is much bigger. In 2011 we were a season high 7 games over in July, we fell on our face and only won 72 games, this year like I just said we were 16 games over on August 8th...

The failures of this team will hurt the organization, next july whether we are 1 game over or 10, the doubt will creep into the players heads and you will not see a jam packed PNC Park. I think it is crucial to get 82 wins this year so that we dont have to hear about it anymore, if we fall short, even if we get 81, than this year was a bigger failure than if we lost 100 games...


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:34 pm 
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batterup wrote:
I think this season will hurt us more mentally than ever.


Perhaps... if we finish like we're playing right now. But, if we could manage to win 10 of our next 15, then all will be alright. Will they? Maybe/ maybe not, but let's finish the season first and see for ourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:39 pm 
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It's important that the bucs finish this season out. Make it a winning season. Something tells me they will. I get this feeling.

Next year is next year. New guys will be brought in. New free agents. We'll see what happens next year. I can't explain why a complete collapse has happened again, especailly after the complete collapse last year. All these guys can do is learn from it.

What worries me right now is the bullpen. It has completely fallen apart. There's a big difference between you're starter keeping you in the game, even with no run support, as was last night and then the bullpen coming in and completely letting the lead balloon. The guy doesn't steal second if you keep the runners off the bases in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:46 pm 
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They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even Pitt can play in January.


Fixed it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:16 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


you are right my friend and pay 18 million a year for that one guy, i know it sounds like a ton and something we will never do but like i read in another post, we spent almost 16 million this year on bedard,barajas,barmes and a few other minor signings......I realize it is not that easy because we needed those positions but could you imagine speding 16 million a year for someone you know will produce instead of what we got...


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:42 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


I agree. I know it's preposterous to dream this, but they ought to get into the Josh Hamilton bidding. We would be an instant contender for the division. No question.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:42 pm 
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batterup wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


you are right my friend and pay 18 million a year for that one guy, i know it sounds like a ton and something we will never do but like i read in another post, we spent almost 16 million this year on bedard,barajas,barmes and a few other minor signings......I realize it is not that easy because we needed those positions but could you imagine speding 16 million a year for someone you know will produce instead of what we got...


Yeah someone like Carl Crawford ....

Signing big FA's is not a good idea, it isn't $16 million for 1 year, its $16 million for 5 or 6 years. These contracts rarely work out. The money we have ahs to be spent on player development and retaining players that we do develop. The Bucs need to fill that bat need with creative moves like the AJ trade and good talent evaluation (hopefully like the Snider trade).

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:44 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


I agree. I know it's preposterous to dream this, but they ought to get into the Josh Hamilton bidding. We would be an instant contender for the division. No question.


I'm all for pooling our annual $10-12 million in 1 and 2 year deals for 3 or 4 players into one player for $10 million for 1 or two years. That said, you won't be getting a legit star that way, you will get an aging vet or a risk reward type.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
batterup wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


you are right my friend and pay 18 million a year for that one guy, i know it sounds like a ton and something we will never do but like i read in another post, we spent almost 16 million this year on bedard,barajas,barmes and a few other minor signings......I realize it is not that easy because we needed those positions but could you imagine speding 16 million a year for someone you know will produce instead of what we got...


Yeah someone like Carl Crawford ....

Signing big FA's is not a good idea, it isn't $16 million for 1 year, its $16 million for 5 or 6 years. These contracts rarely work out. The money we have ahs to be spent on player development and retaining players that we do develop. The Bucs need to fill that bat need with creative moves like the AJ trade and good talent evaluation (hopefully like the Snider trade).



Exactly. Josh Hamilton would be awesome for 1 year, $20 mil. But Josh Hamilton for 6 years, $120 mil? When he's 35 and batting .230 in limited appearances? That can be killer.

But it would be pretty awesome to see Hamilton in Pittsburgh. I buy him his first Ir....I mean, uh, good luck Josh!

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Snider can't hit a ball in the air- everything hits the ground in the dirt in front of home plate.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:47 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Snider can't hit a ball in the air- everything hits the ground in the dirt in front of home plate.


Yet he has 32HR in 942 ab's in his big league career, did they move the fences in at Skydome?

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:10 pm 
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What stinks is we wont have the astros in our division next year or our league. Wish National league would keep Astros, and put milwaukee back in the american league.lol


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:41 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.


Really? One big bat?

How about one big bat, several bench players, a catcher, and 3 starting pitchers away.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:21 pm 
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i say keep pedro,neil,garrett, cutch, aj, joel and karstens. get rid of the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
i say keep pedro,neil,garrett, cutch, aj, joel and karstens. get rid of the rest.


Starling?


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Since day 1 NH has been building this team to be a contender by 2013. I say 1 more year.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Marte and holt need to be back in the minors. I think in time they will be good players, but not ready yet.


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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:59 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
They need to overspend on an impact free agent. I don't care if they only sign one player. The Pirates are one big bat from being in the playoffs. You no longer have to be a fantastic team to make the post season. It's very similar to college football. There are so many bowl games that even below average teams can play in January.

Hanley Ramirez was that guy this season. They wouldn't open the wallet.

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 Post subject: Re: what stinks for next year is...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:37 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Yeah someone like Carl Crawford ....

Signing big FA's is not a good idea, it isn't $16 million for 1 year, its $16 million for 5 or 6 years. These contracts rarely work out. The money we have ahs to be spent on player development and retaining players that we do develop. The Bucs need to fill that bat need with creative moves like the AJ trade and good talent evaluation (hopefully like the Snider trade).


I understand that there are risks involved with long term free agent contracts and that is why I said spend that on one year or two years, we will need to overpay but I think it would be better off to do that than throw money away on the bedards and barajas's. Believe me, I hate long term deals that are in the hundreds of millions, very rarely does it work out..but

Aramis Ramirez signed with the brewers for two years, we could have signed him on a two year deal and spent more than milwaukee and it would have cost us the same as we spent on that big bad 3 B's (barmes, bedard, barajas)

Now, even if Ramirez did not sign with us (and cant blame him for not wanting to) we still could overspent on a one or two year deal with somebody, willingham, beltran, etc.


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