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 Post subject: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:13 am 
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7 Stolen Bases - just sickening


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:48 am 
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Couldn't agree more. Reminds me of coaching 8 year old baseball and softball. Any time a runner gets on base, its as good as a double. The real shocker to me is that more teams haven't exploited this weakness.

As a former catcher, I find it absolutely reviling. Its an embarassment.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:55 am 
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The team's fundamentals -- holding runners, bunting, baserunning, etc. -- are a general mess. I'm thinking the people responsible for player development throughout the system -- I'm specifically looking at you, Kyle Stark -- should be put out to pasture. In order to compete at the major league level, Pirates' players must master the fundamentals of baseball. We're simply not seeing that.

DK's article today references the problem:

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... z26vKr84gi

It takes neither a trained baseball eye nor advanced metrics to see that the Pirates’ prospects have lacked in fundamentals under Huntington and farm director Kyle Stark. We’ve seen it for five years, and I’ve heard complaints about it from major league coaches just as long.

From slide-steps to stealing to bunting to baserunning to strike-zone recognition, these players have arrived in Pittsburgh glaringly unprepared.

I could fill the sports section with examples, or I could simply share what a farm director for another National League team told me Tuesday: “What the Pirates are doing down there is deplorable.”

That sentiment is echoed broadly across the industry.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:59 am 
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AJ Burnett and Rod Barajas needed to be worked better in the Pirates farm system?

Some of this may be fundamentals but a lot of it is a catcher who sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:34 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
AJ Burnett and Rod Barajas needed to be worked better in the Pirates farm system?

Some of this may be fundamentals but a lot of it is a catcher who sucks.


Most of it is a conscious decision to not focus on controlling the running game. A SABR strategy that was working for months. The Brewers have figured it out and have chosen to exploit it. When you choose to do something at an extreme (like ignoring SBs) you better have a plan B if an opponent makes you pay. Of course, you don't have to worry about stealing bases if you don't allow so many hits, walks or hit batsmen.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
AJ Burnett and Rod Barajas needed to be worked better in the Pirates farm system?

Some of this may be fundamentals but a lot of it is a catcher who sucks.


Most of it is a conscious decision to not focus on controlling the running game. A SABR strategy that was working for months. The Brewers have figured it out and have chosen to exploit it. When you choose to do something at an extreme (like ignoring SBs) you better have a plan B if an opponent makes you pay. Of course, you don't have to worry about stealing bases if you don't allow so many hits, walks or hit batsmen.

If that's a SABR strategy it's a dumb one. Holding runners on is something a pitcher learns to do at a young age(or should). Obviously some are better at it than others. But to totally disregard it is absurd. No team can afford to constantly give away bases. Oh, and yes....Barajas is TERRIBLE!


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:31 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
The team's fundamentals -- holding runners, bunting, baserunning, etc. -- are a general mess. I'm thinking the people responsible for player development throughout the system -- I'm specifically looking at you, Kyle Stark -- should be put out to pasture. In order to compete at the major league level, Pirates' players must master the fundamentals of baseball. We're simply not seeing that.

DK's article today references the problem:

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... z26vKr84gi

It takes neither a trained baseball eye nor advanced metrics to see that the Pirates’ prospects have lacked in fundamentals under Huntington and farm director Kyle Stark. We’ve seen it for five years, and I’ve heard complaints about it from major league coaches just as long.

From slide-steps to stealing to bunting to baserunning to strike-zone recognition, these players have arrived in Pittsburgh glaringly unprepared.

I could fill the sports section with examples, or I could simply share what a farm director for another National League team told me Tuesday: “What the Pirates are doing down there is deplorable.”

That sentiment is echoed broadly across the industry.


What is troubling about that is Pirates are one of the slower clubs at bring players through the system. I'm not opposed to being deliberate with you players but if they arent any better at fundamentals when they arrive what is pointing in keeping them down so long?


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:33 pm 
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More evidence that it is by plan, not just bad MLB catchers. Our minor leaguers are last in CS% in all of baseball at 21.4%.

When I said earlier taht it is a SABR strategy, I meant is its SABR influenced. No one has really tested it liek we are, but in theory ignoring CS outs doesn't do much for run prevention. This is probably true when teams run at a normal rate against you. The problem arises when teams run constantly like the Brewers are, if you can't compensate somehow then all those extra bases start to make a real difference. The advantage gained by allowing your pitchers to focus on the hitter starts to lose to the extra bases allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:34 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
AJ Burnett and Rod Barajas needed to be worked better in the Pirates farm system?

Some of this may be fundamentals but a lot of it is a catcher who sucks.


Most of it is a conscious decision to not focus on controlling the running game. A SABR strategy that was working for months. The Brewers have figured it out and have chosen to exploit it. When you choose to do something at an extreme (like ignoring SBs) you better have a plan B if an opponent makes you pay. Of course, you don't have to worry about stealing bases if you don't allow so many hits, walks or hit batsmen.

If that's a SABR strategy it's a dumb one. Holding runners on is something a pitcher learns to do at a young age(or should). Obviously some are better at it than others. But to totally disregard it is absurd. No team can afford to constantly give away bases. Oh, and yes....Barajas is TERRIBLE!


Was it SABR strategy or was it more a bend but dont break philosophy?

Barajas has not looked good since he was injured at the end of June.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Wonder if Hurdle has ever heard of a pitchout. Or if Barajas could throw anybody out on one.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Wonder if Hurdle has ever heard of a pitchout. Or if Barajas could throw anybody out on one.


That would be the plan B, I was alluding too. I don't think I can remember a single pitchout this year.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:22 pm 
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What is there percentage on stolen base attempts this season? I mean seriously I can't think of the last time they threw somebody out.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
What is there percentage on stolen base attempts this season? I mean seriously I can't think of the last time they threw somebody out.


9%, league average is 27%. They arn't really trying to throw people out. I think Fort nailed someone within the last week or so, it was so surprising I did a double take.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:27 pm 
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that is absolutely horrific!


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Stolen Bases
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
What is there percentage on stolen base attempts this season? I mean seriously I can't think of the last time they threw somebody out.

Got one tonight! Woo hoo!


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