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 Post subject: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:06 am 
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Dejan makes his case in the Trib:

http://triblive.com/sports/2573386-74/nutting-pirates-draft-league-baseball-collapse-questions-team-america-director#axzz25Z38tTin


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:28 am 
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The one key thing in the article for me -

I could simply share what a farm director for another National League team told me Tuesday: “What the Pirates are doing down there is deplorable.”

This isn't the first time I've seen a comment seriously questioning our developmental approach.

IMO, Huntington often comes up with good ideas, but his "I'm smarter than everyone else" attitude gets in the way and they do things to a far extreme. Its like the OF shift a few years back or the extreme focus on the pitch ignoring the running game.

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Well NH did get Cutch signed, but what have you done for me lately?


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:47 am 
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I've been a Huntington supporter, but this article raises a few questions that I've had myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Dejan wrote:
However sharp Nutting’s baseball acumen might be, few would dispute his knowledge of running a business. And throwing away $15.25 million last winter on Erik Bedard, Nate McLouth, Clint Barmes and Rod Barajas isn’t the kind of thing he’ll miss. Or appreciate.


I think this is another great point. Nutting didn't gain the capital to buy the team by allowing and/or accepting failure. I can't imagine that any businessman- whether it be the owner of a baseball team or someone in the corporate world- is going to accept the level of failure the Pirates have achieved since the all star break.

IMO Hurdle and Searage should stay. You can make a case for NH but otherwise I think it would be wise to start a coaching/management overhaul beginning in the low minors (coaches NEED to teach fundamentals well) and moving up through the big club. The ML scouting has sucked, our organizational depth is not great (but is balanced out by having six top-hundred prospects).

No one's job should be safe and every single person in the organization- especially in the minors- should be evaluated.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:35 pm 
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I'm not sure yet how I feel about Huntington and Hurdle. Part of it is that I still want to see if we can break .500 or not. It's a long shot but I haven't given up hope.

Both of those guys are intelligent, honorable men, or so I believe. But the results are just not there. We are mostly healthy, added talent at the trade deadline, and brought up anyone who might be able to help from AAA. And still we are not competitive.

Let's say we don't break .500 and no changes are made. Next year we have basically the same cast of characters and are in contention in June and July. How could anyone think they were going to sustain it? You would be just waiting for the inevitable collapse again.

So from a marketing standpoint alone I think something needs to be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:09 pm 
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I think NH, Kyle "Stooge" Stark, and at least a few. Scouts are goners. Our player development has now become a joke throughout baseball...just what they needed. Stark, IMO, is mainly to blame for that. As for NH, as Dopers says, he tries to prove how smart and innovative he is...and it backfires. He put all that money in to the drafts, and other than the "can't miss" guys he has little to nothing to show for it. And obviously they have some bad scouts working for them.

I'm losing faith in Hurdle at a rapid pace as well, but I think his personality will keep him safe for another year. Coonelly should go too. Not sure he has said one intelligent thing since he has been here.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I'm not sure yet how I feel about Huntington and Hurdle. Part of it is that I still want to see if we can break .500 or not. It's a long shot but I haven't given up hope.

Both of those guys are intelligent, honorable men, or so I believe. But the results are just not there. We are mostly healthy, added talent at the trade deadline, and brought up anyone who might be able to help from AAA. And still we are not competitive.

Let's say we don't break .500 and no changes are made. Next year we have basically the same cast of characters and are in contention in June and July. How could anyone think they were going to sustain it? You would be just waiting for the inevitable collapse again.

So from a marketing standpoint alone I think something needs to be done.

That's the thing that bothers me the most, I think. Injuries are a huge part of a team's success, or lack thereof, and we've been blessed. And we still have largely thrown away the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm 
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IF they worried about fundamentals as much as whether the minor leaguers had their pants up high, the organization would be better off. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Sometimes there's a reason why everybody else is doing something a certain way.


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I'm not sure yet how I feel about Huntington and Hurdle.

As far as Huntington goes, I don't really care whether or not he gets fired so long. It could be much worse- we all saw it for a long time- but he's no Ray Shero or Kevin Colbert as far as GM skill goes.

As for Hurdle, I have to believe that he's a great guy in the clubhouse and that the players like him but the second half collapses and some of his in game decisions are baffling. I don't know if shaking up his coaching staff and bringing in a more capable strategist could help him out or not.

Ralphie wrote:
Both of those guys are intelligent, honorable men, or so I believe. But the results are just not there. We are mostly healthy, added talent at the trade deadline, and brought up anyone who might be able to help from AAA. And still we are not competitive.


I agree. There are many intelligent and honorable men that cannot produce results though and at the end of the day they need to be held accountable.

Ralphie wrote:
Let's say we don't break .500 and no changes are made. Next year we have basically the same cast of characters and are in contention in June and July. How could anyone think they were going to sustain it? You would be just waiting for the inevitable collapse again.


After the past two eerily similar collapses I'm singing the same tune.

Ralphie wrote:
So from a marketing standpoint alone I think something needs to be done.


We will!


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 Post subject: Re: Heads will Roll?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:04 pm 
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I wouldn't count on it. Pirates might keep everybody.


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