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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:04 am 
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Chris76 wrote:
Barmes makes that play



I know. Remember though, defense is meaningless.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:25 am 
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We will finish behind Milwaukee. You may as well accept that ugly truth.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:26 am 
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Honesty I wish the season were over. I'm tired of watching the Pirates fail night after night.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:36 am 
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rellimie wrote:
Chris76 wrote:
Barmes makes that play



I know. Remember though, defense is meaningless.

Barmes does NOT make that play. I get sick of hearing every time one of the young guys makes an error that "Barmes would've made that play". Barmes is solid, very solid. But he doesn't have exceptional range, and has made his share of errors this year. Couple that with his putrid hitting and I hope he is gone at the end of the year.

As for that specific play, Chase made a heck of an effort. The ball was smoked, he immediately dove, gloved it, but just couldn't get a grip on it to make a throw. If you want to bitch about him, start with his ridiculously lousy at bat in the top of the inning with the bases loaded. Anyway, if Hurdle knew how to manage(which is becoming more and more questionable) the game wouldn't have been in extra innings.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:00 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
As for that specific play, Chase made a heck of an effort. The ball was smoked, he immediately dove, gloved it, but just couldn't get a grip on it to make a throw. If you want to bitch about him, start with his ridiculously lousy at bat in the top of the inning with the bases loaded. Anyway, if Hurdle knew how to manage(which is becoming more and more questionable) the game wouldn't have been in extra innings.

Another point about that play - why are you even pitching to Ludwick with first base open? I get the whole righty-righty thing, but Jay Bruce was 1 for 5 with 3 strikeouts, including his last 2 ABs against right-handers.

Probably the worst managed game in a long, long time - and CH didn't come across too well in his comments afterwards either.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Just like I was noting in the Hughes thread, I think you notice managers more when they are bad. But I seem to have been "noticing" Hurdle a lot this year.

It's hard to credit a manager for things that you can't see that have teams playing well and I understand that, but jeez have I been left bewildered on many occasions this year by Hurdle's moves.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:11 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
As for that specific play, Chase made a heck of an effort. The ball was smoked, he immediately dove, gloved it, but just couldn't get a grip on it to make a throw. If you want to bitch about him, start with his ridiculously lousy at bat in the top of the inning with the bases loaded. Anyway, if Hurdle knew how to manage(which is becoming more and more questionable) the game wouldn't have been in extra innings.

As I've said before, I like the way Hurdle is able to coach and motivate players, but his in-game management stinks on ice.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Hurdle does a lot of things right but ultimately you are judged by your record. His teams have collapsed two years in a row and he has had only one winning season in his career.

I put a lot of our inability to steal bases on him also.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Willton wrote:
As I've said before, I like the way Hurdle is able to coach and motivate players, but his in-game management stinks on ice.

I just have to wonder what effect a bungled mess of a game like last night has on the motivation level of the players.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Willton wrote:
As I've said before, I like the way Hurdle is able to coach and motivate players, but his in-game management stinks on ice.

I just have to wonder what effect a bungled mess of a game like last night has on the motivation level of the players.

I'm wondering whenter maybe he is just a good talker. He is folksy, down home, and has an interesting way with words. Also, he replaced a guy who resembled a corpse. Think about his actual managerial skills..

1. Can't handle pitchers worth crap.
2. Too loyal to vets...Barajas has started 5 of the last 7 games. Seriously...that is beyond ridiculous.
3. Substitution patterns are questionable at best. Last night he pinch ran for Jones, who was only an insurance run anyway. This, of course, took out his best hitter of late out of the lineup.
4. And as someone said above, he is now going to be the owner of 2 horrible collapses. The Pirates don't have enough talent, but a manager should be able to pull a team out of a tailspin like that. After all, they were good enough to get hot for two months. It's one thing to fade, but another to collapse.
5. And he doesn't have a great track record.


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:59 pm 
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bases loaded nobody out in the 14th inning and we cant even get one run....that unacceptable when you have the middle of your order coming up...ridiculous


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:16 pm 
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batterup wrote:
bases loaded nobody out in the 14th inning and we cant even get one run....that unacceptable when you have the middle of your order coming up...ridiculous



Well...it was Chase D'Arnaud, hitting in the 4 spot and then Pedro on one of his flail days. Your point stands, but - it was 4-5-6 in name only.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:44 pm 
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A point about last night's game that I've not seen mentioned anywhere, but was absolutely critical. On the potential double play ball that Bruce beat out in the 7th, Holt literally lobbed/tossed the ball to Barmes. If he has just actually thrown the ball with even a little bit of umph, the ball beats Bruce by a step at 1st base. You can't play at this level at half speed (which is what Brock Holt did).

Just a horrible loss all the way around. Our extra inning at bats were just disgraceful -- particularly that one inning where we struck out three times in a row - LOOKING!

And just pathetic how the Pirates over the last five weeks look just like prior incarnations -- always finding the way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Don't even get me started on the top of the 14th (I'm pretty sure Jones would have found a way to get a run in with bases loaded and no outs). And why exactly is Jeff Clement on this team?


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Clement is on the team to pinch hit.

--- Mr. Obvious


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 Post subject: Re: 9/10/12 Pirates (72-67) at Reds (84-57)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:42 pm 
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When will the bleeding end? This ship has sunk faster than the titanic. How can a team play so different from two halves of the season? This is so crushing!


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