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 Post subject: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:48 am 
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When is Starling Marte due back from DL?

And what will be the line up look like once he returns?


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:20 am 
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Chris76 wrote:
When is Starling Marte due back from DL?

And what will be the line up look like once he returns?


It's gonna be interesting..Can only help.

I look for a rotation between him and Tabata and Snider....which means one of them will always be available to pinch hit. I like it!

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Chris76 wrote:
When is Starling Marte due back from DL?

And what will be the line up look like once he returns?


Marte went on the DL on 8/19, that puts him eligible to return on on Monday 9/3 vs Houston. I imagine he'll be back on schedule. If it were my call, Marte plays LF and hits lower in the lineup while Snider/Tabata play RF in a platoon and hit leadoff.

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Just curious, but why would you want to platoon Snider? He's hit over .300 with an OPS of over .800 since coming to the Bucs. His defense has been fine, runs the bases well and seems to give a hell of a lot more effort than Tabata. I also think that the power will start to surface here soon now that he is settled in with the new club.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
Just curious, but why would you want to platoon Snider? He's hit over .300 with an OPS of over .800 since coming to the Bucs. His defense has been fine, runs the bases well and seems to give a hell of a lot more effort than Tabata. I also think that the power will start to surface here soon now that he is settled in with the new club.


Sit him vs lefties only, .674 career ops vs lefties.

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Chris Anderson wrote:
Just curious, but why would you want to platoon Snider? He's hit over .300 with an OPS of over .800 since coming to the Bucs. His defense has been fine, runs the bases well and seems to give a hell of a lot more effort than Tabata. I also think that the power will start to surface here soon now that he is settled in with the new club.


Sit him vs lefties only, .674 career ops vs lefties.

His recent results indicate otherwise. In fact, this year he has a reverse platoon split: .698 OPS vs. RHPs and 1.180 OPS vs. LHPs in 2012. I say play Snider every day.

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Chris Anderson wrote:
Just curious, but why would you want to platoon Snider? He's hit over .300 with an OPS of over .800 since coming to the Bucs. His defense has been fine, runs the bases well and seems to give a hell of a lot more effort than Tabata. I also think that the power will start to surface here soon now that he is settled in with the new club.


Sit him vs lefties only, .674 career ops vs lefties.

His recent results indicate otherwise. In fact, this year he has a reverse platoon split: .698 OPS vs. RHPs and 1.180 OPS vs. LHPs in 2012. I say play Snider every day.


Yeah I wouldn't make a big stink about it either way, Snider has all of 31 ab's vs lefties this year. I think I'd rather get Tabata some PT and I'd rather see Marte play everyday than Snider (who I really like too). Reality is they will mix Tabata in at both spots so neither loses out much.

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
Just curious, but why would you want to platoon Snider? He's hit over .300 with an OPS of over .800 since coming to the Bucs. His defense has been fine, runs the bases well and seems to give a hell of a lot more effort than Tabata. I also think that the power will start to surface here soon now that he is settled in with the new club.

I really like Snider. Quickly becoming a favorite of mine. He reminds me of Brian Giles...and yea, he seems like he would run through a wall for the team. If Tabata did that the wall might collapse(Sorry, couldn't resist a fat joke after the recent debate! :D ).


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Willton wrote:
His recent results indicate otherwise. In fact, this year he has a reverse platoon split: .698 OPS vs. RHPs and 1.180 OPS vs. LHPs in 2012. I say play Snider every day.

I agree. He's a young guy, still, and we held off on getting anyone more experienced, and really, is our financial position going to be any different next year? He needs to play and we need to see what we've got. I'd play him every day, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Here's my pick:

1.Marte
2.Snider/Tabata
3.McCutchen
4.Alvarez
5.Walker
6.Jones
7.McKenry
8.Barmes
9.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:13 pm 
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I would start marten and Snider every game with tabata off the bench. Would marte leadoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Chris76 wrote:
Here's my pick:

1.Marte
2.Snider/Tabata
3.McCutchen
4.Alvarez
5.Walker
6.Jones
7.McKenry
8.Barmes
9.

We need to stop pretending that Marte is a suitable leadoff hitter. I count 5 Pirates starters with better plate discipline than his. If people are going to draw comparisons between him and Alfonso Soriano, then he should be treated like Alfonso Soriano: moved down in the order.

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Chris76 wrote:
Here's my pick:

1.Marte
2.Snider/Tabata
3.McCutchen
4.Alvarez
5.Walker
6.Jones
7.McKenry
8.Barmes
9.


Why on earth would you sit Snider? He's done nothing but hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Snider would be my everyday go to guy with Tabata as spot starter


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Chris76 wrote:
Here's my pick:

1.Marte
2.Snider/Tabata
3.McCutchen
4.Alvarez
5.Walker
6.Jones
7.McKenry
8.Barmes
9.

We need to stop pretending that Marte is a suitable leadoff hitter. I count 5 Pirates starters with better plate discipline than his. If people are going to draw comparisons between him and Alfonso Soriano, then he should be treated like Alfonso Soriano: moved down in the order.


His speed is the key, imo. You need a speedy leadoff. And his bat has impressed me. This next month will tell the tale as to if he blongs at #1. But, I think he is our best choice for now, because if he succeeds, he could be one of the best in the league at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:45 pm 
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CashInFist wrote:
His speed is the key, imo. You need a speedy leadoff. And his bat has impressed me. This next month will tell the tale as to if he blongs at #1. But, I think he is our best choice for now, because if he succeeds, he could be one of the best in the league at it.



You need a speedy guy at leadoff if you play small ball. The Pirates have not played small ball well this year. Stealing bases, sac bunts and hit-n-runs have been putrid all year. Like it or not (I like it), we are a long ball team now. One of the stats they showed on the ESPN game the other night is that we have scored over 42% of our runs from Home Runs.

I would rather have a "smart" baserunner leading off. Snider has shown the right mix of aggressive, but intelligent baserunning. Walker does too. Tabata is aggressive, but stupid (leading the league in CS) and Marte, as stated by many others earlier, is not patient enough at the plate. He would be a good #7 hitter in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:56 pm 
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CashInFist wrote:
His speed is the key, imo. You need a speedy leadoff.


I'll let my man Jonah Keri handle this one...

Quote:
There are many sabermetric principles that have gained mainstream acceptance over the past years. One of them is the notion that batting order doesn't matter. In a broad sense, that's true. If a manager can get his best nine guys in a lineup, that's more important than where each of them bat. But that doesn't mean that where each hitter bats is completely irrelevant. There is such thing as optimal batting order. If you want to keep things simpler, consider this: For every spot a hitter drops in the order, he loses about 18 plate appearances over the course of a full season. Which means it's imperative that your best hitters bat as high in the order as possible.

Choosing your lead-off and number-two hitters based on basestealing (leaving aside the fact that Cozart has four stolen bases all year) is a counterproductive move straight out of the mid-'70s. The problem is, old managerial habits can be hard to break. In 2009, Willy Taveras hit .240/.275/.285 for the Reds. That made him the second-worst hitter in all of baseball with more than 400 plate appearances that year. It's bad enough that Baker gifted Taveras with 437 times at bat. That 84 percent of those gifts came in the lead-off spot makes it that much more egregious. But hey, Taveras did steal 25 bases in 2009. So he's got that going for him. Which is nice.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... es-problem

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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:00 pm 
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OBP > SB's...particularly at lead off. Doesn't matter if you can steal bases if you can't get on base!

I don't even think you need the Sabremetrics to support that...


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 Post subject: Re: Starling Marte
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:43 pm 
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CashInFist wrote:
Willton wrote:
Chris76 wrote:
Here's my pick:

1.Marte
2.Snider/Tabata
3.McCutchen
4.Alvarez
5.Walker
6.Jones
7.McKenry
8.Barmes
9.

We need to stop pretending that Marte is a suitable leadoff hitter. I count 5 Pirates starters with better plate discipline than his. If people are going to draw comparisons between him and Alfonso Soriano, then he should be treated like Alfonso Soriano: moved down in the order.


His speed is the key, imo. You need a speedy leadoff. And his bat has impressed me. This next month will tell the tale as to if he blongs at #1. But, I think he is our best choice for now, because if he succeeds, he could be one of the best in the league at it.

His entire career, majors and minors, tell the tale, and the tale is, "Once upon a time there was a guy who could run really fast, but didn't get on base all that much." Marte is no leadoff hitter, and I think that he's going to have to work hard to take back any playing time from Tabata.

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