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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:57 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
The issue isn't whether he's going to sell him as a 1B vs 3B. It's whether he'll be viewed as a DH only guy or not. The defense is already borderline and won't get better with age.


See I disagree with that. Pedro is most valuable as a third baseman, less so as a first baseman, and even less so as a DH. I think his defense will get better as he matures, because the experience gained is overriding any loss of athleticism.

Eventually he will have to move away from third, but at this point in his career I would leave him right where he is.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:22 pm 
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mjdouble wrote:
Dr. Phibes wrote:
mjdouble wrote:

A) Is Pedro a 'star' player?

B) What's best for the Pirates?


He was an all-star, a silver slugger, co-NL HR Leader, and made a name for himself with a solid postseason. You might not thing he is a star but I bet he does and I'm sure his agent does. The whole story was crap speculation that has no shot of happening. No way Boras would be OK with Pedro switching positions and now way Headley would sign a 2 or 3 year deal. He is a year away from free agency. He'll likely be the best 3rd basemen on the market. Someone will give him 6 years and $100 million. The forecasts have him getting $10 million this year in arbitration.


Sorry I wasn't clear, but those weren't loaded questions. Was honestly throwing the question out there. I look at the HR total and his overall production, and although good, I just wonder if that makes him a 'star' player, or just a good player. Guys like Adam Dunn, Trumbo, and even Brandon Moss aren't far off on the HR total and had better offensive numbers in other categories. Are they star players or just good players? So I just wanted to throw that out there for the boards input.

Regarding the second question, what is best for the Pirates....if they don't find a suitable FA for 1B and no trade makes sense for a 1B, but there was a team willing to trade a 3B who would have more difficulty playing 1B than Pedro, what can they do? Do they have the power to simply say they NEED Pedro to play 1B and that is best for the team, or do players have the right to refuse moving? Do the players have no real power to say no and the only thing they really could do to show displeasure would be a clubhouse distraction or half ass it? Would the other players embrace that, or straighten the player out because it is what is best for the TEAM? If we had preliminary discussions with Boras about an extension and it is clear that Pedro will take it to FA, then is it worth moving him regardless of how it effects his future value to MLB, if it makes his value to us greater?

Both just questions I was rolling around in my brain.....


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
The issue isn't whether he's going to sell him as a 1B vs 3B. It's whether he'll be viewed as a DH only guy or not. The defense is already borderline and won't get better with age.


See I disagree with that. Pedro is most valuable as a third baseman, less so as a first baseman, and even less so as a DH. I think his defense will get better as he matures, because the experience gained is overriding any loss of athleticism.

Eventually he will have to move away from third, but at this point in his career I would leave him right where he is.


Some good points there.

I'd have to look deeper into the numbers to see if his errors had a significant impact on defensive performance or anything like that. I know I'm overthinking it but I can't help it with my math mind running free.

I do agree that Pedro should not be moved unless a better defensive option (i.e. Headley) is brought in to play 3rd.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Travis Sawchik is reporting that Josh Johnson's agent has indicated the Pirates are one of the 3 or 4 teams that Johnson is considering signing with. Seems like he may be close to inking a deal.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/5102187-74/johnson-pirates-sosnick#axzz2l7gkMX1V


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:10 pm 
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mjdouble wrote:
Travis Sawchik is reporting that Josh Johnson's agent has indicated the Pirates are one of the 3 or 4 teams that Johnson is considering signing with. Seems like he may be close to inking a deal.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/5102187-74/johnson-pirates-sosnick#axzz2l7gkMX1V


A 1-year, $10 million deal for Josh Johnson would be fine by me.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:28 pm 
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I doubt he will get that much....JMHO.... 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:19 am 
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Johnson to Padres. 1 year/$8M, with a 1.25M bonus if he pitches 26 games. Steep given the year he just had, coupled with the loss of velocity. I was expecting him to get similar to Liriano where he got a small base salary but a bunch of bonuses that kick in based on health. Good for him.

Pirates come in 2nd, per Twitter.

Probably the best possible choice for him. He didn't want a long-term deal and if you want to pad pitching stats for a year you can't beat Petco as a righthander.

Edit: Per Jerry Crasnick, the San Diego offer wasn't the biggest but he turned them down to pitch there. Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:13 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Edit: Per Jerry Crasnick, the San Diego offer wasn't the biggest but he turned them down to pitch there. Interesting.


Well, he definitely stuck to his word about pitching in a pitcher's park.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:23 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Edit: Per Jerry Crasnick, the San Diego offer wasn't the biggest but he turned them down to pitch there. Interesting.


Well, he definitely stuck to his word about pitching in a pitcher's park.


Yeah, and they also mentioned he has a home in Vegas so the west coast teams had an advantage right off the bat.

My guess would be that the Pirates made one of the big offers since they came in 2nd but that's just reading between the lines. SF is pitcher friendly as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:03 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
JollyRoger wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Edit: Per Jerry Crasnick, the San Diego offer wasn't the biggest but he turned them down to pitch there. Interesting.


Well, he definitely stuck to his word about pitching in a pitcher's park.


Yeah, and they also mentioned he has a home in Vegas so the west coast teams had an advantage right off the bat.

My guess would be that the Pirates made one of the big offers since they came in 2nd but that's just reading between the lines. SF is pitcher friendly as well.

I don't think the Giants really chased him that hard. I doubt they had the same interest after signing Tim Hudson. My hunch is he had a bigger offer from KC. They seemed to be attached to rumors for him early on. They seemed miffed over the west coast preference. They may have even leaked that he intended to sign with a west coast team.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:11 pm 
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I know there are still other issues like getting a backup SS, a 1st Baseman, and AJ, but I think the team could benefit from getting Kelly Johnson as a possible bench piece. He gives you versatility he can play the OF, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base and has some pop. He also could possibly be a platoon in RF with Tabata until Polanco comes up.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:25 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
I know there are still other issues like getting a backup SS, a 1st Baseman, and AJ, but I think the team could benefit from getting Kelly Johnson as a possible bench piece. He gives you versatility he can play the OF, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base and has some pop. He also could possibly be a platoon in RF with Tabata until Polanco comes up.


I've always wanted the Pirates to have a great super-utility guy off the bench. Josh Harrison was actually pretty good in that role in 2013, but I'd LOVE to see the Pirates get someone like Kelly Johnson or Juan Uribe -- both of those guys have some real pop.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Was there any report on why Ivan DeJesus was granted free agency? I would have liked to see him compete for that utility role in ST.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:40 am 
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First time I heard this one. Maybe I missed it on UPPMB.

Rafael Furcal at SS

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/5172503-74/mckenry-pirates-arbitration#axzz2mGrWMtCO

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:39 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
First time I heard this one. Maybe I missed it on UPPMB.

Rafael Furcal at SS

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/5172503-74/mckenry-pirates-arbitration#axzz2mGrWMtCO


Not a terrible option if he'll take a one-year deal.

His BB/K ratios in 2012 and 2011 (the last two years he played) were 44/57 and 28/39. He's probably lost a step in the field, but he has the arm to make a throw on any ball he reaches. I think he could be a 1.5 WAR player for the Bucs. I'd offer him a one-year, $5-7 million deal.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:23 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Was there any report on why Ivan DeJesus was granted free agency? I would have liked to see him compete for that utility role in ST.


I agree about wanting to give him a shot, but as for why, most likely because the Pirates regime very obviously values defense more than offense when it comes to bench/utility roles. DeJesus was below average defensively and couldn't play SS, so he didn't have much value being carried only to be Walker's back-up (especially when Mercer can already better serve that role). Oh, and Clint Hurdle's obsession with Josh Harrison.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Multiple reports are saying that James Loney is now the Pirates' top choice in FA. Passan is reporting that Loney is looking for 3 years and $27MM-$30MM. The Rays are reportedly trying to resign Loney.

Tim Williams says they've also inquired about Adam Lind and Mitch Moreland.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:19 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Multiple reports are saying that James Loney is now the Pirates' top choice in FA. Passan is reporting that Loney is looking for 3 years and $27MM-$30MM. The Rays are reportedly trying to resign Loney.

Tim Williams says they've also inquired about Adam Lind and Mitch Moreland.


Three years and $27M would be fine for Loney. His line drive rate is very high and he's always been able to hit away from Dodger Stadium, plus he plays great defense. I'm not a big fan of Lind or Moreland, and signing Loney costs zero prospects.

Let's out-bid the Rays!


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:16 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
JollyRoger wrote:
Multiple reports are saying that James Loney is now the Pirates' top choice in FA. Passan is reporting that Loney is looking for 3 years and $27MM-$30MM. The Rays are reportedly trying to resign Loney.

Tim Williams says they've also inquired about Adam Lind and Mitch Moreland.


Three years and $27M would be fine for Loney. His line drive rate is very high and he's always been able to hit away from Dodger Stadium, plus he plays great defense. I'm not a big fan of Lind or Moreland, and signing Loney costs zero prospects.

Let's out-bid the Rays!

I think that is an overpay, but I don't think it will take that much to outbid the Rays. I'd be ok trading for one of those guys too. I think they'd actually get more value in a trade than a free agent signing. It won't take much to acquire one of those guys. This is a buyers market for 1B. Saturated with flawed platoon type hitters. I like Loney better than Lind and Moreland, but not sugnificantly more.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Free Agency Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:42 pm 
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I don't mind Lind's bat. The dude absolutely mashes righties to the tune of a .286/.343/.508 career triple slash. His 17.8% K rate against RHP is more than acceptable.

I haven't really paid attention to Lind or Loney in the field but the consensus seems to be that Loney is the far superior defensive option, which seems to go a long way with NH (market deficiency n'at).

Lind would make $7MM next year and has team options for $7.5MM in 2015 ($1MM buyout) and $8MM in 2016 ($500k buyout) so the money isn't far off between the two. If Loney goes elsewhere, I'd like to see them make a push for Lind.


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